Forums > Kitesurfing General

Launch with kite towards or away from beach?

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Created by COL > 9 months ago, 1 Dec 2011
2 Dec 2011 2:21PM
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pomE said...

I've thought about this a fair bit recently being new to these shores.

Down at Botany, I've noticed almost everyone launches with kite near water and 'skipper', sometimes right up on the small dunes depending on tide. Few times I've been down here, the beach has been pretty packed with bathers/ kids etc. It's not the biggest of beaches, and I've wondered if launching this way is the best idea?

Launching this way surely means there's more potential for a kerfuffle as you're 20-25 metres away from the water after launching thus have to then get to the water thru the kiddies and sunbathers. Launching the other way at least means you're able to get straight in the water once launched.

That said, I always launch on my front flagging line too- which happens to be on the right hand side so if the ****e did hit the fan, I'd be better launching kite-to-water direction, but then if I did have to deploy safety, my kite would land downwind anywhere withing that 20-25 metres of beach anyway and surely cause a fair deal of bother if the beach were busy.

I guess conditions and beach 'traffic', dictate.....


The idea of launching with the kite closest to the water has nothing to do with the so called bad old days of C kites. If you launch with kite towards the land in side shore conditions, then you have to fly the kite up and over the top of the wind window, this is when you are most at risk of a lofting.
Launching with kite water side totally avoids this and allows you to keep the kite "Low and Go"!

pomE
NSW, 164 posts
2 Dec 2011 2:27PM
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Kitepower Australia said...

Select to expand quote
pomE said...

If you launch with kite towards the land in side shore conditions, then you have to fly the kite up and over the top of the wind window, this is when you are most at risk of a lofting.
Launching with kite water side totally avoids this and allows you to keep the kite "Low and Go"!




Yer, makes sense- I didn't really think about the kite-at-zenith-lofting aspect of things...

oceanfire
WA, 718 posts
2 Dec 2011 11:28AM
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Shayne86 said...

Hardcarve1 said...


as like just about every new kiter feels it's their god given right to kite and they know better.


sorry but I have to disagree here. Im only new to kiting after starting my lessons a few months ago before the season got under way and i dont feel this way at all.
I have a healthy respect for the sport and understand that it can lay the smackdown on my ass quite easily

My point is that just the other day I went down to a local spot and there was literaly 15-17 kiters all cramped onto one small patch of beach. Conditions were awesome BUT i decided not to go in. 2 reasons for this were the fact that im still learning my waterstarts and can not stay upwind on the board yet so require more space and I would have had to set up much closer to other people than I am comfortable doing so. Hence my decision to just sit back in the aircon and enjoy wathcing the pros have a go

Not all noobs are arogant(sp?) and cocky


Don't be put off by crowded beaches, it's only going to get worse as the popularity of kiting increases and you'll only delay your learnings.

If you've had lessons and are practicing your water-starts, then you must be able to fly the kite competently enough to avoid other kites in the air.

It is very off putting getting to the beach and seeing a crowded scene, but as long as you aren't doing anything stupid and are aware of your surroundings, you'll be fine.

And don't worry about not being able to go upwind yet, just get out and practice, the experienced kiters will make allowances for you - this is one of the best aspects of the sport, the comraderie is great, again, as long as you're not doing anything stupid and stay aware of the other kiters around you.

The only thing you have to be vigilant about is other learners, especially those not as far along the learning path as you are.
It actually helps your confidence to be able to avoid the 'lower learners', sometimes with their wildly swinging kites hitting the water, you'll see how far you have actually come and be inspired to continue on your kiting journey with greater confidence.

If you can control your kite competently, I think that getting out when there's a fair few kiters out helps speed up your learnings and certainly increases your awareness of the other water users.

Just remember to be careful and measured in everything you do.

dave......
WA, 2119 posts
2 Dec 2011 6:23PM
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Chris_M said...

Dave: It was on Bozo beach in Cabarete, where at higher tides it can be quite narrow, and as you probably know, there are resorts with walls lining the most part of the beach, not to mention crowds. Yes I am reflective in my teaching practices (have reached level 2 and worked for 3 seasons), as part of being a high school teacher reflecting on pedagogy is a major part of my "normal" occupation.

I think the problem lies in allowing schools to set up where there are not wide open spaces available. But in most cases thats not economically viable, as to be a successful school (money wise) you probably need a few "walk ins" who are cruising the beach and see the kites and drop in. Often these types of beaches are quite close to development, or narrow beaches. Or development sets up in close proximity to kiting areas.

That is all


Sweet mate, We have the same idea, be reflective and think outside the square. I just could have posted nicely, Bad day yesterday. My dad is dying at quite a rapid rate. Last Chrissy with him.. Its about best practise. Where possible get your launcher as close to the water as possible for the reasons both you and I have suggested, where practible.. and with anyone who is not at least an intermediate give plenty of room for other kitesurfers, bystanders. I want best case scenarios, not beaches closed, that is my only priority.

EDIT: Yeah and Cabarette is 300m with 35 kiteschools, WTF, your spot on $$$ VS safe teaching practices. In WA its so much easier to go in another location. you dont have that luxury there!

dave......
WA, 2119 posts
2 Dec 2011 6:36PM
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OOPS, and another bit of advice, I used to teach most students, to hold onto the bar in the centre with only one finger of each hand. That way when things go wrong the fast flying kite with added bar-pressure will let go and everything will stop.

Before a water start a student has to be able to fly the kite with one hand, both ways, how are they ever going to put a board on otherwise. The IKO is just a start and theres always some steps that you can perfect due to local conditions that you can do. Any monkey can teach any monkey to fly a kite, its about Hobby Safety Standards. (OHS) in the workplace, if anyone is an instructor that is your Occupation. I learnt from Darren Marshall, a much better instructor than me.

the walks
WA, 448 posts
2 Dec 2011 9:24PM
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wax on..............wax off................

dave......
WA, 2119 posts
3 Dec 2011 6:21AM
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the walks said...

wax on..............wax off................


Ha, classic. I put the wax on and my front foot takes it off.

Joe Cron
NSW, 450 posts
6 Dec 2011 9:45PM
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ok said...

Col are u referring to all the blow ins at merewether - dicko today being so stupid ?


I get it now, 'stupid' means ripping in modern slang, as in;

"Man, that guy was going stupid out there, throwin buckets all over the place, it was awesome to watch."

And 'blow ins' mean surfers who, although they don't live within walking distance of this particular stretch of sand, have just as much right as anyone to be here.

Any other M'bay slang I should know about OK?

hamburglar
ACT, 2174 posts
6 Dec 2011 11:52PM
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Joe Cron said...

ok said...

Col are u referring to all the blow ins at merewether - dicko today being so stupid ?


I get it now, 'stupid' means ripping in modern slang, as in;

"Man, that guy was going stupid out there, throwin buckets all over the place, it was awesome to watch."

And 'blow ins' mean surfers who, although they don't live within walking distance of this particular stretch of sand, have just as much right as anyone to be here.

Any other M'bay slang I should know about OK?


he's not that clown riding the doona was he ???

Coose
VIC, 229 posts
7 Dec 2011 10:29AM
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I think everyone needs to htfu and just learn to reverse launch, even better try hot launching with the kite directly down wind! its the only way o become a man.... launching at the edge of the wind window is a thing of the past.

adrenal
VIC, 134 posts
7 Dec 2011 11:49AM
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oceanfire said...

Shayne86 said...

Hardcarve1 said...


as like just about every new kiter feels it's their god given right to kite and they know better.


sorry but I have to disagree here. Im only new to kiting after starting my lessons a few months ago before the season got under way and i dont feel this way at all.
I have a healthy respect for the sport and understand that it can lay the smackdown on my ass quite easily

My point is that just the other day I went down to a local spot and there was literaly 15-17 kiters all cramped onto one small patch of beach. Conditions were awesome BUT i decided not to go in. 2 reasons for this were the fact that im still learning my waterstarts and can not stay upwind on the board yet so require more space and I would have had to set up much closer to other people than I am comfortable doing so. Hence my decision to just sit back in the aircon and enjoy wathcing the pros have a go

Not all noobs are arogant(sp?) and cocky


Don't be put off by crowded beaches, it's only going to get worse as the popularity of kiting increases and you'll only delay your learnings.

If you've had lessons and are practicing your water-starts, then you must be able to fly the kite competently enough to avoid other kites in the air.

It is very off putting getting to the beach and seeing a crowded scene, but as long as you aren't doing anything stupid and are aware of your surroundings, you'll be fine.

And don't worry about not being able to go upwind yet, just get out and practice, the experienced kiters will make allowances for you - this is one of the best aspects of the sport, the comraderie is great, again, as long as you're not doing anything stupid and stay aware of the other kiters around you.

The only thing you have to be vigilant about is other learners, especially those not as far along the learning path as you are.
It actually helps your confidence to be able to avoid the 'lower learners', sometimes with their wildly swinging kites hitting the water, you'll see how far you have actually come and be inspired to continue on your kiting journey with greater confidence.

If you can control your kite competently, I think that getting out when there's a fair few kiters out helps speed up your learnings and certainly increases your awareness of the other water users.

Just remember to be careful and measured in everything you do.




Man, good on you for trying to encourage hardcarve and I don't disagree with everything you say, but you don't want to discourage prudent judgement calls - hardcarve has the right idea. He stood back and assessed the situation.

The trouble with "as long as you're not doing anything stupid and stay aware of the other kiters around you." is that as a noob, you're not entirely sure whether you're doing something stupid and it's all very well to stay aware of other kiters as long as you have sufficient kite control to act when necessary. Especially to take evasive action.

Willingly putting yourself in intimidating situations that addle you when confidence levels are low can set the scene for doing something 'stupid'.

Sure, its a chicken and egg thing - need to face the music in order to learn and grow confidence but there's a line....

As a newbie, I remember a couple occasions when trying to learn water starts in congested situation and thinking to myself 'this is stupid, I shouldn't be here. I haven't the opportunity to practice and I'm unnecessarily getting in the way of others'. There was no gain.

So I found myself sitting out a couple congested sessions after that. Tough call because you just want to be out there with everyone else, but the right call 'for me'.

If ever there was a sport that demanded the precautionary principle, it's kiteboarding.

AKSonline
WA, 925 posts
Site Sponsor
7 Dec 2011 8:53AM
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Hi peeps,

This is a simple problem with a not so simple answer. IKO teach to have the kite at the waters edge for two reasons;

1/ It puts the kite in the "cleanest" or least turbulent wind so that the kite will fly better than if it were in gusty wind affected by objects, dunes, trees or buildings.

2/ The kite will pull you towards the water if powered up. And finally, the kite doesn't have to pass through the Zenith to get you into the water. ie launch and go straight into the water with lite low.

Most of this information was born through necessity in the days of 2-line kites which had no "off" position. Problem is the rule doesn't fit all situations and IKO had never updated that rule nor many others from the days of 2-Line.

This is why most instructors I taught were taught to be "Intelligent, free thinking, independent instructors" using their brain and not necessarily using IKO rules verbatim. They are a good place to start if you have no prior learnings, but IKO/BKSA doesn't have all the answers.

The rules above are good, so long as the beach is clear of all obstacles and dangers downwind and on the land side of the launch. However this is rarely the case. Example: At Pinnaroo Point we always launched with kite at the water until the Council planted 6" Diameter pine log posts all along the dunes which you could be smashed into due to proximity of the launch position if things went wrong. The rule made it more dangerous for a potential accident. Instructors then had to re-assess the situation and explore options for the safest launch.

ALL good instructors should be able to carefully and intelligently weigh up the pro's and con's of each situation, choosing the safest option. Often, this can change on the day depending upon local dangers, wind direction, tides and many other things.

As I have said to instructors I have trained in the past; "The IKO is a skeleton or framework with which to begin teaching, it is not the bible nor should it be referred to as anything similar". It's a place to start in a sport which has too many variables to have a rule book which fits all situations. Kitesurfing isn't golf.

DM

oceanfire
WA, 718 posts
7 Dec 2011 8:58AM
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adrenal said...

oceanfire said...

Shayne86 said...

Hardcarve1 said...


as like just about every new kiter feels it's their god given right to kite and they know better.


sorry but I have to disagree here. Im only new to kiting after starting my lessons a few months ago before the season got under way and i dont feel this way at all.
I have a healthy respect for the sport and understand that it can lay the smackdown on my ass quite easily

My point is that just the other day I went down to a local spot and there was literaly 15-17 kiters all cramped onto one small patch of beach. Conditions were awesome BUT i decided not to go in. 2 reasons for this were the fact that im still learning my waterstarts and can not stay upwind on the board yet so require more space and I would have had to set up much closer to other people than I am comfortable doing so. Hence my decision to just sit back in the aircon and enjoy wathcing the pros have a go

Not all noobs are arogant(sp?) and cocky


Don't be put off by crowded beaches, it's only going to get worse as the popularity of kiting increases and you'll only delay your learnings.

If you've had lessons and are practicing your water-starts, then you must be able to fly the kite competently enough to avoid other kites in the air.

It is very off putting getting to the beach and seeing a crowded scene, but as long as you aren't doing anything stupid and are aware of your surroundings, you'll be fine.

And don't worry about not being able to go upwind yet, just get out and practice, the experienced kiters will make allowances for you - this is one of the best aspects of the sport, the comraderie is great, again, as long as you're not doing anything stupid and stay aware of the other kiters around you.

The only thing you have to be vigilant about is other learners, especially those not as far along the learning path as you are.
It actually helps your confidence to be able to avoid the 'lower learners', sometimes with their wildly swinging kites hitting the water, you'll see how far you have actually come and be inspired to continue on your kiting journey with greater confidence.

If you can control your kite competently, I think that getting out when there's a fair few kiters out helps speed up your learnings and certainly increases your awareness of the other water users.

Just remember to be careful and measured in everything you do.




Man, good on you for trying to encourage hardcarve and I don't disagree with everything you say, but you don't want to discourage prudent judgement calls - hardcarve has the right idea. He stood back and assessed the situation.

The trouble with "as long as you're not doing anything stupid and stay aware of the other kiters around you." is that as a noob, you're not entirely sure whether you're doing something stupid and it's all very well to stay aware of other kiters as long as you have sufficient kite control to act when necessary. Especially to take evasive action.

Willingly putting yourself in intimidating situations that addle you when confidence levels are low can set the scene for doing something 'stupid'.

Sure, its a chicken and egg thing - need to face the music in order to learn and grow confidence but there's a line....

As a newbie, I remember a couple occasions when trying to learn water starts in congested situation and thinking to myself 'this is stupid, I shouldn't be here. I haven't the opportunity to practice and I'm unnecessarily getting in the way of others'. There was no gain.

So I found myself sitting out a couple congested sessions after that. Tough call because you just want to be out there with everyone else, but the right call 'for me'.

If ever there was a sport that demanded the precautionary principle, it's kiteboarding.



Sounds like we are in complete agreement then.

adrenal
VIC, 134 posts
7 Dec 2011 12:11PM
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pretty much oceanfire. Just wanted to highlight the prudence of sometimes sitting it out rather than treating every situation as a challenge that must be met.
(an affliction from which the male of the species suffers)

oceanfire
WA, 718 posts
7 Dec 2011 9:16AM
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adrenal said...

pretty much oceanfire. Just wanted to highlight the prudence of sometimes sitting it out rather than treating every situation as a challenge that must be met.


Fair go, I never said or implied 'must', careful & measured was my advice - that includes the decision of whether to go out or not.

Sorry to split hairs, don't want to be misconstrued

adrenal
VIC, 134 posts
7 Dec 2011 12:24PM
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No wuckers oceanfire. We're on the same page.

adrenal
VIC, 134 posts
7 Dec 2011 12:54PM
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My first paragraph was not well worded. Did not mean to imply that your post discouraged caution, which clearly it does not. I should have included the words '...in sitting it out' somewhere in there.

hamburglar
ACT, 2174 posts
7 Dec 2011 5:55PM
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Sorry to split hairs, don't want to be misconstrued


not the first time



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"Launch with kite towards or away from beach?" started by COL