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Launch with kite towards or away from beach?

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Created by COL > 9 months ago, 1 Dec 2011
COL
NSW, 554 posts
1 Dec 2011 8:57PM
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I'm surprised by the number of people launching their kite from back up the beach with the kite down near the water. Instructors even teach that way? "I'd rather be pulled towards the water than towards the beach when things go wrong" seems to be the reasoning.
Well my reasoning is this. Your kite is near the edge of the window when launched, it can't possibly cause a problem there. The problems begin when the kite finds it's way downwind of you and at that point I'd much rather be near the water with as much clear space away from obstacles as possible.
Col

Joe Cron
NSW, 450 posts
1 Dec 2011 9:30PM
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Hmmm, haven't thought about it much Col, mostly self launch so it's a directly downwind kind of hot launch, but I do roll the kite off the LE towards the water so if I do f u c k up and get dragged, it will be towards the sea. Probably won't do much because the damage may well be done by that time.

When I fall off in black water, I always take off towards the shore.

I was out back of the Dicko - Bar stretch today when I saw a small foam buoy bobbing.

First I thought ' WTF is a spear fisher doing this far out?' then I saw the words 'Shark Net' printed on the side of it.

Turned around pretty quick.

dave......
WA, 2119 posts
1 Dec 2011 6:45PM
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People teach in a different way, and it totally depends on the beach. The safest way is to get into the water if its shallow enough and launch directly on the waters edge, Land side this gives the potential bridle wrap to throw you towards the water rather than the land. Its all personal, but someone who knows the thumbs up before they let go, AND get one back is the key.

I like to get someones kite that has asked for a launch and walk upwind of them while the lines are slack, get the lines taught and then move down-wind and GIVE the kite a little tension so it wants to shoot forward. This means if the wind drops/gusts a little when you let go it wont barrel downwind and cause a potential mess, or bridle wrap. As a kiter your bar should be almost in using this technique and as it shoots forward, 1-3m you depower a little to bring it up. This method has never gone wrong. Letting a kite go in gusty winds right at the edge of the wind window allows launch issues.

Its uncool when you have to duck to avoid someon-else's kite or lines when your pumping up and your back is turned. Allow some room for error.

ok
NSW, 1089 posts
1 Dec 2011 9:48PM
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Col are u referring to all the blow ins at merewether - dicko today being so stupid ?

Joe Cron
NSW, 450 posts
1 Dec 2011 9:53PM
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ok said...

Col are u referring to all the blow ins at merewether - dicko today being so stupid ?


Seeing as I was one of only 3 kiters I saw there today, is this satirical? If not, what did anyone do that was stupid today there?

Chris_M
2132 posts
1 Dec 2011 7:06PM
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As an IKO instructor and trying to teach from the book I usually made sure the kite was nearer the water so if the student got pulled, they would head toward the wet stuff.

My thoughts on launching students kites' did a 180 degree turn when launching a student on her own kite. Her safety was hooked into a flagging line on a 2007 RRD and the leash must have been short enough to F*ck with the flying behaviour of the kite (pulled on one of the front lines) Instead of bring the kite slowly up to 11 as we had practiced on the school kites, it whipped over to 1 or 2, (like when u send it) and she got lofted and was centimeters away from being flung into the wall of a nearby resort.

Put the **s up us both, really knocked her confidence, in hindsight, she would have been better at the waters edge.

However, it there was a line wrapped around her wingtip instead, which could feasibly happen, then she would be looping toward the wall.

Its a toughie, and sometimes, as is the nature of the sport, unexpected ** happens, although NOBODY wants to see it happen that's for sure.

dave......
WA, 2119 posts
1 Dec 2011 7:24PM
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Chris_M said...

As an IKO instructor and trying to teach from the book I usually made sure the kite was nearer the water so if the student got pulled, they would head toward the wet stuff.

My thoughts on launching students kites' did a 180 degree turn when launching a student on her own kite. Her safety was hooked into a flagging line on a 2007 RRD and the leash must have been short enough to F*ck with the flying behaviour of the kite (pulled on one of the front lines) Instead of bring the kite slowly up to 11 as we had practiced on the school kites, it whipped over to 1 or 2, (like when u send it) and she got lofted and was centimeters away from being flung into the wall of a nearby resort.

Put the **s up us both, really knocked her confidence, in hindsight, she would have been better at the waters edge.

However, it there was a line wrapped around her wingtip instead, which could feasibly happen, then she would be looping toward the wall.

Its a toughie, and sometimes, as is the nature of the sport, unexpected ** happens, although NOBODY wants to see it happen that's for sure.


It takes a long time to be a great instructor. As long as you're reflective and learn from it its OK, you still kept the 50m exclusion zone and no-one else gets hurt. Psychology is also good to know, keep them in the zone not bored, and not intimidated. I pump girls up tell em how safe it is, and is push guys down, telling them how dangerous it is. The right frame of mind makes a better lesson. Never had a safety issue teaching, but I learnt from the Best Darren M, with a Degree in Education, Sports Science and Human Biol. I also taught martial arts, a dangerous sport. It's about your pedigree, not a 7 day IKO course. Not writing you off, some friendly advice.

EDIT: youve taken the day off anyway, teach them theory, before practice, then theyve heard it twice when doing your lesson. With all the diversions down the beach, some beginners just dont listen. DM cnat teach everything in 7 days, yet god created our world

kitingtopher
SA, 313 posts
1 Dec 2011 9:56PM
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better the water than the power lines

COL
NSW, 554 posts
1 Dec 2011 10:33PM
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Chris_M said...

As an IKO instructor and trying to teach from the book I usually made sure the kite was nearer the water so if the student got pulled, they would head toward the wet stuff.

My thoughts on launching students kites' did a 180 degree turn when launching a student on her own kite. Her safety was hooked into a flagging line on a 2007 RRD and the leash must have been short enough to F*ck with the flying behaviour of the kite (pulled on one of the front lines) Instead of bring the kite slowly up to 11 as we had practiced on the school kites, it whipped over to 1 or 2, (like when u send it) and she got lofted and was centimeters away from being flung into the wall of a nearby resort.

Put the **s up us both, really knocked her confidence, in hindsight, she would have been better at the waters edge.

However, it there was a line wrapped around her wingtip instead, which could feasibly happen, then she would be looping toward the wall.

Its a toughie, and sometimes, as is the nature of the sport, unexpected ** happens, although NOBODY wants to see it happen that's for sure.


Thanks Chris, that's what I mean. When things do go wrong they go awefully wrong. It all happens too quick. The kite is not at the side pulling you towards the water. It's hauling your ass downwind & the more space you have in that direction the better. Even up at Pt Douglas an instructor was teaching, perhaps by the book, to launch from up the beach where even to bring the kite depowered up above your head the kite is only meters away from palm trees.
My point is that each kiter should think for themselves & make sure their method is as safe as they think it can be.

COL
NSW, 554 posts
1 Dec 2011 10:36PM
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ok said...

Col are u referring to all the blow ins at merewether - dicko today being so stupid ?


Ah.... NO

stamp
QLD, 2791 posts
1 Dec 2011 9:41PM
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dave...... said...




I also taught martial arts, a dangerous sport. It's about your pedigree




thanks sensai. what exactly does you teaching martial arts have to do with anything?

dave......
WA, 2119 posts
1 Dec 2011 7:51PM
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COL said...

ok said...

Col are u referring to all the blow ins at merewether - dicko today being so stupid ?


Ah.... NO


Col, the reason I gave my advice to lauch on the land towards the water is due to gravity, a poor launch will rarely wrap around the bottom leading edge with slack lines, it it almost always the top, and throwing a student or beginner towards the water, rather towards land is a much better outcome for the kitesurfer and any bystanders. Ive been called an intellectual snob, more than once.

Water at full speed is still like landing on concrete, but concrete at any speed sucks.

the walks
WA, 448 posts
1 Dec 2011 8:00PM
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Every location is different, as an instructor you use your experience to access the best options, example, mullaloo, launch with kite away from shoreline, if it go's wrong you may damage your self but not the hundreds of beach-walking locals in the shallows

dave......
WA, 2119 posts
1 Dec 2011 8:12PM
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Not Martial arts, self defence. Its a dangerous sport to learn, without doing a proper instructors course, just cause you can do it, it doesnt mean you have the experience to forsee the inherent dangers involved with beginners, ignorance is just plain ignorance. Hence the snob comment directed at me by me.

Edit: sorry mate I taught self defence to women at UWA when the Claremont serial killer was in town.

rickwindt
WA, 245 posts
1 Dec 2011 8:16PM
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got a little question here.. I am a beginner and I like to get out on the beach when there aren't many people around so I can't make any mistakes involving other people. Now sometimes there aren't even any people around which means I'd have to self launch. I haven't actually done this just yet and deff don't really want to do it at Melville (my closest beach) because it is such a narrow beach.

Now I saw a bloke that was obviously a beginner as well, grab his kite and let it float on the water on its leading edge, grab the power lines and then walk out to the end of the lines while holding the power lines and then just do a water launch..

Is this a safe way of self launching?? or does this have it's down sides..?

dave......
WA, 2119 posts
1 Dec 2011 8:20PM
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Yes mate its safe, I used to live in applescross and you can set your kite up at the edge of the water, go in it and walk upwind keeping all lines taught as you walk, this wil avoid bridle tangles and your kite wont end up in the trees if you stuff up. Thats what the yellow bouys are for, launch within the bouys and turn outside of them when you are competent.

2 Dec 2011 12:00AM
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The idea behind launching with your kite on the waters side is "keep it low and go".
Launcher lets go, you keep the kite low and pick up your board on the way into the water (obviously the board is placed down near the water in the line of the launch direction, prior to launch).

If the kite has an issue that causes it to go out of control, I don't see that launching from either side is going to make much difference. The key in assisted launches it to make sure the launcher understands to never let go until you give the thumbs up sign. The pilot, NEVER the launcher, should move to get the kite set and ready to launch at the edge of the window.

dave......
WA, 2119 posts
1 Dec 2011 9:24PM
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I love red thumbs, I get them from your wife/girlfriend periodically.

rickwindt
WA, 245 posts
1 Dec 2011 10:15PM
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dave...... said...

I love red thumbs, I get them from your wife/girlfriend periodically.


You kitesurf the red sea do ya? Haha

Skid
QLD, 1499 posts
2 Dec 2011 1:00AM
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Not sure which way to launch?

Just come to Townsville, the wind is mostly direct on shore. So, you can chose to launch with the kite to your left or to your right. Either way, downwind will be away from the wet stuff....

Plummet
4862 posts
2 Dec 2011 2:20AM
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Well first up I will get assisted launch if possible. either towards or away from the water depending on the wind and and beach width on the day.
Then i will do a teathered launch if thats possible. its always kute towards the water.
Then last method if all else is unavailable to drag launch. I'll usually do this at the waters edge and be in the water and launch kite towards shore. Then if something goes wrong you have the restriction of the water to slow you down.

As stated above when it goes pear shape your usually heading off down wind.

If i drag launched facing the water at high tide i'd be standing in the drift wood.

I ask you. Whats safer standing in drift wood or standing in the water to launch?

Hardcarve1
QLD, 550 posts
2 Dec 2011 4:30AM
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This is what I tell learners based on local area with cross on winds. This is for people who have had lessons and are just real nervous flyers. Telling them not to kite or get more lessons is not an option as like just about every new kiter feels it's their god given right to kite and they know better.
Stand as close to the water edge or in the water an have the kite launce towards the way you don,t want to go (land).
If the front lines are around the wrong way in most cases the kite will fell heavey and just not want to launch, it will just try to push back down on the beach.
If the rear lines are wrong then the hot launch will take the kite through the power zone and and hopefully ner the water.
I know it souds backwards but from my observations over many years is launching towards land may just be safer.

dave......
WA, 2119 posts
2 Dec 2011 2:32AM
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The worst scenario is when the bottom bridle gives way, or the bottom line is not connected, the kite will fully power up and is uncontrollable, its better for it to sign across the window and pull you downwind and towards the water, since you in the water and across the land with no-one downwind of you is the safest option. But every beach is different. When teaching on C-kites, you wernt allowed to teach in directly onshore conditions.

Chris_M
2132 posts
2 Dec 2011 4:31AM
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Dave: It was on Bozo beach in Cabarete, where at higher tides it can be quite narrow, and as you probably know, there are resorts with walls lining the most part of the beach, not to mention crowds. Yes I am reflective in my teaching practices (have reached level 2 and worked for 3 seasons), as part of being a high school teacher reflecting on pedagogy is a major part of my "normal" occupation.

I think the problem lies in allowing schools to set up where there are not wide open spaces available. But in most cases thats not economically viable, as to be a successful school (money wise) you probably need a few "walk ins" who are cruising the beach and see the kites and drop in. Often these types of beaches are quite close to development, or narrow beaches. Or development sets up in close proximity to kiting areas.

That is all

KIT33R
NSW, 1716 posts
2 Dec 2011 9:36AM
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After many years of kiting I still launch with my safety attached to the flagging line. Only once I have the kite under full control do I move it to suicide.

Also, I mostly self launch unless I know the launcher has a fair degree experience after a mishap with a newbee who offered me a launch and I discovered he had little idea when he threw my kite into the air when I was not ready.

pomE
NSW, 164 posts
2 Dec 2011 9:59AM
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I've thought about this a fair bit recently being new to these shores.

Down at Botany, I've noticed almost everyone launches with kite near water and 'skipper', sometimes right up on the small dunes depending on tide. Few times I've been down here, the beach has been pretty packed with bathers/ kids etc. It's not the biggest of beaches, and I've wondered if launching this way is the best idea?

Launching this way surely means there's more potential for a kerfuffle as you're 20-25 metres away from the water after launching thus have to then get to the water thru the kiddies and sunbathers. Launching the other way at least means you're able to get straight in the water once launched.

That said, I always launch on my front flagging line too- which happens to be on the right hand side so if the ****e did hit the fan, I'd be better launching kite-to-water direction, but then if I did have to deploy safety, my kite would land downwind anywhere withing that 20-25 metres of beach anyway and surely cause a fair deal of bother if the beach were busy.

I guess conditions and beach 'traffic', dictate.....

the walks
WA, 448 posts
2 Dec 2011 7:03AM
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can you rearly beat experience and common sense
the sport will always have people who think they know better and instructors who actually, should'nt be

toddws
WA, 469 posts
2 Dec 2011 7:07AM
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The Kite near the water goes back to the 'good old days' of heavy bar pressure and a general lack of manoeuvrability. If the there was an issue on launch the kiter was pulled towards the water, and generally quicker than they could react.
With modern kites with very light bar pressure a student is more likely to over-steer the kite with a kiter at the water launch and suddenly end up with the kite on the opposite side and potentially be dragged towards fences, dunes, walls, car, parks etc.
Things go wrong for no no good reason, and they go wrong quickly.
I kited on Tuesday, set up my kite as usual (7m 2011 fuse) and when launching one of the knots on my steering line pigtails on the kite, decided to let go of the larks head on the steering lines.
Luckily it was the right hand side pigtail, on a west coast launch and I was launching with myself at the water and the kite up the beach. The kite went to 12, the right hand line pinged and the kite went straight over and ended up in the water.
No damage to me or the kite, and luckily there was no one coming into the beach to transition or jump.

eppo
WA, 9686 posts
2 Dec 2011 7:26AM
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I cam beat that toddles. The other day actually forgot to put the right steering line actually on the kite!! Hey 11 years and forgot this, damn. Thank god for the fifth line. It went up and straight over like yours, what a complete idiot.

toddws
WA, 469 posts
2 Dec 2011 7:52AM
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eppo said...

I cam beat that toddles. The other day actually forgot to put the right steering line actually on the kite!! Hey 11 years and forgot this, damn. Thank god for the fifth line. It went up and straight over like yours, what a complete idiot.


Yeah did the same thing when i rigged NickT to go out on a demo 2011 9m vegas, He did a 6m boost and the kite went from 10 to 12 for the boost then went to 3 and he dropped like a stone from about 4m (sorry NickT my bad), Dooh!!

Shayne86
WA, 189 posts
2 Dec 2011 10:50AM
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Hardcarve1 said...


as like just about every new kiter feels it's their god given right to kite and they know better.


sorry but I have to disagree here. Im only new to kiting after starting my lessons a few months ago before the season got under way and i dont feel this way at all.
I have a healthy respect for the sport and understand that it can lay the smackdown on my ass quite easily

My point is that just the other day I went down to a local spot and there was literaly 15-17 kiters all cramped onto one small patch of beach. Conditions were awesome BUT i decided not to go in. 2 reasons for this were the fact that im still learning my waterstarts and can not stay upwind on the board yet so require more space and I would have had to set up much closer to other people than I am comfortable doing so. Hence my decision to just sit back in the aircon and enjoy wathcing the pros have a go

Not all noobs are arogant(sp?) and cocky



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"Launch with kite towards or away from beach?" started by COL