Forums > Kitesurfing General

Kitesurfing too dangerous

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Created by Kitehard > 9 months ago, 23 Mar 2008
Kitehard
WA, 2782 posts
Site Sponsor
23 Mar 2008 10:25AM
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Well, here we go, like I said in another earlier post, the writing is on the wall if you cared to look. Seems you no longer need to look at the wall, it's on the news.

www.perthnow.com.au/

Nice work and thanks to the few who don't give a toss about our beach access. This has the potential, to create a ripple effect around the country.

Good time for a complete crackdown and maybe a license ???????

It's definately that reckless young Dan Anderson, snapped in the middle of irresposibility

Good winds,

kiter789
NSW, 238 posts
23 Mar 2008 12:38PM
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""In WA in 1993, a 47-year-old kite surfer died after hitting power lines in Rockingham. ""

Really? In 1993? So kitesurfing started in WA! Mystery solved.

Choady
NSW, 72 posts
23 Mar 2008 12:42PM
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I hate sensationalistic news media.

They talked about a handful of events over the last 15 yrs or so - but how about a realistic comparison or two ?

How many kids drown in pools every year? How many people get hurt/killed in cars every year? How many pedestrians or bike riders are injured or killed on footpaths and roads every year? Yet we dont ban pools in the backyard, riding on the roads or driving now do we?

This is just BS media. The people that write this crap and make these decisions (baning or designating areas) are generally ill informed and have no idea about the sport. That beanhead who wrote a response to the article at the bottom of the web page is a classic - "ropes under tension" ?? Comparing kiting to machinery on beaches ? What a knob.

Hopefully this will blow over as it should.

user
WA, 1140 posts
23 Mar 2008 12:50PM
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Choady said...

I hate sensationalistic news media.

They talked about a handful of events over the last 15 yrs or so - but how about a realistic comparison or two ?

How many kids drown in pools every year? How many people get hurt/killed in cars every year? How many pedestrians or bike riders are injured or killed on footpaths and roads every year? Yet we dont ban pools in the backyard, riding on the roads or driving now do we?

This is just BS media. The people that write this crap and make these decisions (baning or designating areas) are generally ill informed and have no idea about the sport. That beanhead who wrote a response to the article at the bottom of the web page is a classic - "ropes under tension" ?? Comparing kiting to machinery on beaches ? What a knob.

Hopefully this will blow over as it should.


Yeah,good response to a bad situation Choady.

Anyone with any criticism. is a "knob" and a "beanhead"

He is 100% correct to be wary of kite lines under tension ! Just because he calls them "ropes" doesn't remove the inherrant danger.

We all know,or ,should know,that kitelines under tension are EXTREMELY dangerous. They could take your head off almost !

Just what we need,idiots waving kitelines all over the beach,nearly decapitating young chidren,then calling anyone that complains names like "knob"

I am slowly coming to the conclusion that there are some spots where kiting SHOULD be banned! Mainly because of the attitudes of a minority of arrogant riders.

Choady
NSW, 72 posts
23 Mar 2008 3:28PM
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User - I think you may need to address the lithium deficiency in yourself champ.

No where did I state that anyone who has criticism is a knob or beanhead. No where did the bloke who wrote a response say there was any "idiots waving kitelines all over the beach,nearly decapitating young chidren" either. What he did do is say:

"what if it was machinery with ropes cutting across the beaches under tension, would be a safety issue and shut down."

I do not think that this is a fair comparison to kiting, hence the point I was trying to make about people being ill informed and having no idea of the sport. I apologise if you took offence to the two emotive words I used to express my frustrations here - perhaps I could have used a better choice of words or even not used them at all - but Im surprised you all of a sudden imply that Im part of a minority of arrogant riders for doing nothing other than expressing my frustrations at all this hooha getting around the media about kiting.

I think youve got a little carried away with what I wrote by trying to perhaps read between the lines a little too much.

Perhaps you should become a journo - cause according to you those ropes under tension can take your head off almost I think the writer meant that lines under tension breaking is the cause for danger - but he didnt specifically say.

Either way - settle down mate. Were all on the same team here



user
WA, 1140 posts
23 Mar 2008 2:17PM
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OK. We are on the same team here.

Well,I think the "team" needs to address the risks of bans ect. in a diplomatic,intelligent way.

Calling members of the public "beanheads" and Knobs" because they are unimformed on the parts of a kite or the real dangers is asking for trouble.

The "knob" may just be a councillor or such.

The only beanheads and knobs are the kiters that act irresponsibly on the beach,causing problems.

dism
NSW, 660 posts
23 Mar 2008 4:57PM
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Coming from a windsurfer (me):

I don't think kiting is too dangerous, but i reckon anyone on a boat type craft (boat, jetski, sailboard, kiteboard) should have the responsibility to keep outta the way of swimmers etc.

Some basic sailing principles of rights and rules and courtesy on the water need to be instilled to those kiters (and probably some windsurfers too, and definately alot of jetskiers) who don't come from a sailing background and may not know the proper ethos when on the water.

This is assuming alot of windsurfers come from a sailing background, whilst kiting is a newish sport which may attract people from non-sailing backgrounds.

This may spark controversy from those diehard kiters who think windsurfing is this and that, and since i do it, therfore I am this and that. But, whatever gets you on the water, don't spoil it for everyone. A little maturity here boys (and girls).

Danger Mouse
WA, 592 posts
23 Mar 2008 7:34PM
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Unfortunately, there ARE a minority of kiters that don't give a toss about the safety of others or themselves. These guys have only joined our great sport for the pose value, unfortunately you get these d***heads when a sport is considered extreme. All we can really do is tell them to pull their heads in when we see them being stupid and hope for the best I guess.

D

Choady
NSW, 72 posts
23 Mar 2008 9:36PM
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user said...

OK. We are on the same team here.

Well,I think the "team" needs to address the risks of bans ect. in a diplomatic,intelligent way.

Calling members of the public "beanheads" and Knobs" because they are unimformed on the parts of a kite or the real dangers is asking for trouble.

The "knob" may just be a councillor or such.

The only beanheads and knobs are the kiters that act irresponsibly on the beach,causing problems.


User - Freedom of speech is one of the few bastions we have left. As I said before I certainly could have used a better choice of words - I acknowledge that.

However a few words on a public forum are hardly going to cause the grief your worried about, even if read by a councillor If only words were to cause beach closures to kiters, then I think our society has much bigger problems to be concerned with.

Like you said - it is those that act irresponsibly and cause problems we need to worry about. As mentioned in the article, we need to be a self policing group. No amount of licensing, or other governance can eliminate those that choose or inadvertently act irresponsibly. I think its important we concentrate on those we see acting questionably in a non confrontational manner to help solve the problems. We have a set of rules and procedures - we just need to stick with them and ensure others do.

Having said that - I also would support any kind of licencing required. I love the sport and would be more than happy to pay for a licence on proof of lesson completion, or a display of competence of some kind. But this would be a sheeat-fite to try and manage and police effectively.

user
WA, 1140 posts
23 Mar 2008 8:23PM
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This is a real tough one.
Licencing.

No one questions the need for a licence to paraglide or hang glide,its just obvious that if you stuff up,it will be nasty. You could hit the ground really hard.

Kiting dangers are not so obvious,but you can hit the ground just as hard if not harder. Or a wall,or a post etc. Worse still,an innocent bystander.

One important thing . The original news story is about banning on BUSY METROPOLITAN BEACHES.
This is common sense. In Sydney those bans have been in place for a long time. Bondi,Coogee etc.

At the moment self regulation is what is needed.

It may require puting some areas off limits.

waveslave
WA, 4263 posts
23 Mar 2008 9:28PM
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user said...

One important thing . The original news story is about banning on BUSY METROPOLITAN BEACHES.
This is common sense. In Sydney those bans have been in place for a long time. Bondi,Coogee etc.




I'm unsurprised,
I find this latest threat to kitesurfing completely predictable.
If kite-dragging schools continue to flourish and multiply,
stamping out newbies in cookie-cutter fashion,
like kooks coming off the assembly-line conveyor belt.....
And if the Industry continues to talk it up, sell it hard.....
What else can you expect ?
Of course inner city beaches like Scarborough will be invaded by kiting-noobs.
And of course some beach-goers of these inner city beaches will protest at the onslaught.
It's all about the over-proliferation of strings on these public beaches.
For any given popular public beach, there must be a 'number' (of kiters) that borders on unsustainability.
Maybe that number has been reached on some beaches....or is fast approaching.

And does anyone believe a license will make for fewer strings ?
lol.

Abesy
WA, 266 posts
23 Mar 2008 9:54PM
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u used to be a kook to waveslave...
imagine if u wanted to get into the sport and some tool was telling u there were already too many people doing it so go find some other sport....

schools should maybe strongly stress to begginers where to kite when learning and where to stay away from, aswell the best suited conditions to kite (not just when theres wind), and also to avoid busy places full of other kiters and water users!

"a learners guide for perth" print out would do...

but remember its not always the starting outers that cause all the serious problems...

waveslave
WA, 4263 posts
23 Mar 2008 10:10PM
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Abesy said...

u used to be a kook to waveslave...
imagine if u wanted to get into the sport and some tool was telling u there were already too many people doing it so go find some other sport....


lol.
I'm not telling folks to find some other sport....
I'm simply suggesting that when the number (of kiters) becomes unsustainable on a particular beach...
then the whole process becomes unworkable.
Just like if you had a large number of vehicles driving on a road that was designed for a lesser volume.
You end up having gridlock.
More than 6 wavekiters at my local is a log-jam.
It's that simple.

felixk
QLD, 312 posts
24 Mar 2008 12:19AM
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When some1 approaches you on the beach and asks whether kiting is fun or not just say it is really boring and that you are only doing it to get massive biceps

waveslave
WA, 4263 posts
23 Mar 2008 11:34PM
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Now,
If kitesurfing had been allowed to grow organically,
at it's own cruisey pace....
like surfing had done prior to the 1990's;
then kitesurfing (as we know it) may have had a fighting chance of survival.

But in the same way that the surfing Industry looked to the snowfields for corporate inspiration (taking note of the huge 'benefits' of highly organized ski-schools),
the kite Industry invented IKO and newbie-zoos.

The die was cast.

Dawn Patrol
WA, 1991 posts
23 Mar 2008 11:35PM
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felixk said...

When some1 approaches you on the beach and asks whether kiting is fun or not just say it is really boring and that you are only doing it to get massive biceps


Felix is on the ball. When somebody asks you, explain how massively heavy the bar pressure is, that you have to be very strong, that several people a week die doing it, it is very very very expensive, takes about 5years to get up and going.

It is probably a vocal minority causing the problems. Who is going to write to a newspaper how great they think kitesurfing is?
I only ever get people absolutely fascinated by the idea of the sport, and can not believe the concept of it.
I understand if people are scarred when kiters come too close. I still get freaked out when some knob gets too close to me.
Would the council allow a few regular kiters to have the authority to have two posts reading "no bathing, kiters launching" that we can put in the ground when it get windy, a hundred metres or so away from the main crowds at the beach?
Maybe we should write up a universal sign at the common spots, laminate it, and stick it too a post. It could remind kiters to keep a safe launching and kiting distance, and show people it is safe for them to be upwind of kiters (I have a feeling some problems are caused when kiters are going just downwind of people, we know it is safe, but the swimmers might not, and it is more likely for kiters to be going 5-10m downwind of people than upwind of people)

junglist
VIC, 701 posts
24 Mar 2008 1:25PM
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waveslave said...

Now,
If kitesurfing had been allowed to grow organically,
at it's own cruisey pace....
like surfing had done prior to the 1990's;
then kitesurfing (as we know it) may have had a fighting chance of survival.

But in the same way that the surfing Industry looked to the snowfields for corporate inspiration (taking note of the huge 'benefits' of highly organized ski-schools),
the kite Industry invented IKO and newbie-zoos.

The die was cast.


Growth and MORE Growth

LOL

kiter789
NSW, 238 posts
24 Mar 2008 2:30PM
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The point is; this IS sensationalistic media bull****, poorly written, poorly researched alarmist drivel. There is a debate to be had about safety, but I don't see that it's got anything to do with this article. I think it's a good idea to separate the two, which means;

One hand: logical sensible informed debate about safety = good idea

Other hand; always, ALWAYS slag off the authors of alarmist sensationalist bull****. Lazy journalism is just that, and if we aren't vigilant then we all end up reading about how "Human Gorillas Are Having Monster Babies!!!!" etc...

felixk
QLD, 312 posts
24 Mar 2008 1:36PM
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kiter789 said...

Other hand; always, ALWAYS slag off the authors of alarmist sensationalist bull****.


What will that do? The media have the power to make the public think what they want, If the media say kite surfing should be banned, then the public, will most likely support that. so if everyone starts slagging them the off dont expect them to write anything good about us... We need to keep the media on side. Slagging them off will only piss them off!

spot1
WA, 1588 posts
24 Mar 2008 2:28PM
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the west australian news paper
LOL

kiter789
NSW, 238 posts
24 Mar 2008 6:09PM
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felixk said...

kiter789 said...

Other hand; always, ALWAYS slag off the authors of alarmist sensationalist bull****.


What will that do? The media have the power to make the public think what they want, If the media say kite surfing should be banned, then the public, will most likely support that. so if everyone starts slagging them the off dont expect them to write anything good about us... We need to keep the media on side. Slagging them off will only piss them off!




So we just roll over and take it? Everyone should be a critical consumer of the media - media is about veracity and accountability.

I see your point, but being nice to the media so they will write nice things about you is a short term strategy. It simply means they will kowtow to the highest bidder, which only works if you are the highest bidder. The truth is a fairer arbiter.

felixk
QLD, 312 posts
24 Mar 2008 5:39PM
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yes, but what will calling them names do? what good will come from it?

Unchained
WA, 193 posts
24 Mar 2008 6:02PM
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it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside

GreenPat
QLD, 4093 posts
24 Mar 2008 7:49PM
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Kitehard said...
It's definately that reckless young Dan Anderson, snapped in the middle of irresposibility


They had to go and pick one of our biggest ambassadors for the sport didn't they? Did they ask you if they could use your photo Dan?

We just need to stand together and support those who are going in to bat for us on this one.

I don't think there was anything too unfair in the article

kiter789
NSW, 238 posts
24 Mar 2008 9:26PM
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very good point...DAN! SUE THEM! Stat!

GreenPat
QLD, 4093 posts
24 Mar 2008 8:36PM
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I doubt he would have ever owned copyright to it, it looks familiar. Just wondering if they asked for comment.

Kitehard
WA, 2782 posts
Site Sponsor
24 Mar 2008 8:02PM
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GreenPat said...

Just wondering if they asked for comment.


Don't be silly Pat, you know the medias motto. "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story"

During an incident at Pinnaroo a year or two ago when there was a Channel 7 chopper filming a couple of guys being rescued off Pinnas, I rang the news desk to try and find out what spin they were putting on the story. I gave them a factual portrayal of events to try and avoid a pasting in the media, but of course they threw it all aside and sensationalised the hell out of it. My version of the story wouldn't sell advertising space.

Damn news is 70 BS most of the time.

Good winds,



tezza49er
NT, 97 posts
24 Mar 2008 10:48PM
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Hi Dazza,
for 8 yrs ive been saying that licencing would clean up our act but i take it all back now...every bloody word.
Im fortunate enough to see kiting all over the globe on a regular basis due work and it seems to me that the culprits are almost never locals (with a vested interest in not pissing off local swimmers to keep beloved local spot open). Same applies everywhere it seems.
If you want to see bad expat behaviour..go to a strip club or red lighter in Bangkok or Manila. Get pissed,abusive, trash the joint,piss everyone off then leave....no problemo dude.

Unfortunately, SOME PERCENTAGE of kite tourists see a foreign spot as a red light and push the frienship way beyond what they would consider normal at their local spot.

The Goldy and WA are sitting Ducks.

My point is...
1) the guys responsible may have flown home to wherever and are probably not reading the results of their actions on this forum.
2) How can licencing stop this group from stuffing it up for locals?
2) Serious offenders from this group will kite at banned beaches anyway which will only make it worse for locals.
.

SOUNDS LIKE SURFING DOESNT IT.....LOCAL ONLY SIGNS ETC>>>>.SCARY STUFF

Just my 2c worth....buggered if i know what the answer is.

Jimmyz
NSW, 446 posts
25 Mar 2008 1:15AM
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Well then maybe we should make the licensing have teeth, fine them if they dont have one, they cant use ignorance as an excuse then can they?

If people reckon it wouldnt be enforcable as fines would never be delt or whatever, then neither would a full on ban - it too would have to governed by a fine system.

mrbonk
NSW, 483 posts
25 Mar 2008 1:38AM
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The simple fact of the matter is that some people do stupid things. If people could be trusted to behave themselves and act responsibly, we wouldn't need speed limits, or blood alcohol limits, or any of the other impositions that the rest of us are forced to endure because of the dkhead component of society who are either too fkng stupid to figure it out for themselves or just plain don't give a sh!t.

In the long term, we're going to wind up with either regulation, or termination. It's as simple as that. The good old 'lowest common denominator' factor will catch up with us and then we'll be just like everything else in this world. Hobbled by morons who simply don't get the message unless they're smacked in the face with it.

greenleader
QLD, 5283 posts
25 Mar 2008 2:00AM
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tezza49er said...

The Goldy and WA are sitting Ducks.


umm, the goldy is mega tourism central, and this weekend for instance, people drowned ,the lifesavers were stretched beyond capacity and even desk police were in patrol cars searching for drunk drivers, not to mention jet skiers and pissed boaties testing the water polices meager numbers.
does anyone think this tiny little pursuit called kitesurfing is of interest to the authorities?
surfers paradise night clubs are a war zone and bingo is on wednesday nites at the RSL.
the local kiters have a good pecking order.
it's all under control.

sensationalism seems to come from those who are uncomfortable with their own kiting abilities!



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"Kitesurfing too dangerous" started by Kitehard