Select to expand quoteI just put this in another post and was wondering what modifications others do, let me know - thx
<div class="forumPostText">Today reluctantly I dragged out my 2013 Griffin 12m TRX for a on/off flat water session. (95% of my time is on 8,9 and 10m TRX in waves but due to no waves on offer in wind for a while I did it. Was I surprised I made the modifications to the short bridle with a further adjustment to make another 20% improvement in kite response as recommended by Griffin and it made the kite feel my 10.5M TRX which is already an excellent kite. I would think similar adjustments may work on other kites so give it a go. As far as an all round kite goes I am not sure there is such a kite the TRX is close but more towards an excellent wave kite and very user friendly on flat water. I think I should make this a new post as well to see if others make modifications to improve performance between kite year versions.
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Well I'm glad you found this extra improvement. The kites I tend to use though don't require such bridal modifications as the r and D has already been done by the Company before they release the kite.
Just saying....
Bit of a narrow minded approach there eppo if a kite manufacturer has an upgrade they want to share mid season then great,there's always room for improovement on any kite otherwise your next season tweaked model wouldn't exist.
Yes I agree that is true. But we do hear a lot of about Griffen kite bridal adjustments. Just keeping you guys honest that's all. Lol.
As I said stoked he got so much out of a change. But it's not usual ( apart from Griffen it seems) to have these mid season adjustments. Wouldn't you agree?
Just a sec, OP, you reckon you can post (and for the 2nd time, by your own admission) a load of self-congratulory and pimping twaddle and follow it up with a question so that we'll be drawn into a discussion rather than taking a critical look at the original comment? Like the hypnotic device of a story within a story? (If I tell you that my friend John said he met Elvis, at least you'll likely believe that John exists.)
I'm kinda insulted by your feeble ruse.
P.S. Nothing against Griffin, I just can't stand poorly disguised desperate publicity grabs, especially when they are also poorly ("incoherently" seemed too harsh) written. I'm a much softer critic if there's at least a nicely composed sentence or two.
To be honest I would have relished a bridle mod that would have given the 2013 c4 light bar pressure. Then I would have been able to keep it rather than down grade back to a 2012 c4!...
So I guess there is potential modifications in any brand.... or tweeks to make the fly more like your style.
Yea it's a pity you had to get rid of the kite plummet and go back to the 2012 ,personally i think it would be great if more manufacturers could suggest upgrades mid season,a lot of them must tweak the existing kites before heading to the drawing board to make the next season product,bridal mods can make the difference between a heavy steering balls out grunt machine to a lighter faster mild powered kite using the same canopy.
More tuning options would be great in the future so you can adjust the bridal more to suit your riding style.
How's the wind been plummet have been out 4 out of 5 days so far,have got a solid 35-40+ knots here today huge groundswell just finishing breakfast then gonna hit it.
Select to expand quotePlummet said..
To be honest I would have relished a bridle mod that would have given the 2013 c4 light bar pressure. Then I would have been able to keep it rather than down grade back to a 2012 c4!...
So I guess there is potential modifications in any brand.... or tweeks to make the fly more like your style.
Would a bridal adjustment have done this plummett? Would there be that much 'play' given canopy design?
A much smaller grass roots brand like griffin would have much more potential to do this than say a company like ozone, north, cabrinha...etc they have a lot more kites circulating in a lot more countries.
Also I also wonder if that was the intention of griffin...I will keep a bridal adjustment under my hat then release half way. Or it isn't quite right but good enough, lets release them then make adjustments as we go. Or this kite is perfect...six months later, wait oops! Many possibilities, plus they wouldn't have the scope, scale or funds to execute the amount of R and D these big companies can before a release.
Also another perspective, a grass roots brand that has close connection with the designer himself and the riders, feeding back improvements over a season....that is relatively cool if you look at it from this angle.
So Radman that is a few of many permutations. I am many things, some serious flaws, close and indeed simple minded is not one of them.
From a Kite Designer about Bridles.....
Other designers I have worked who work with various brands ( including big brand names ) say that the bridle on a kite ( position attachment location ) is 80% of the kites performance. A short bridle on a 12m can add up to 10 meters or more. A 2-4cm change on just 1 bridle line length can change the performance of a kite up to 20%.
If you are a rider of any brand, an you discover you can make your year old kite perform 15% better without having to "upgrade" to next years model i don't see how any one would want to complain about having that choice.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
Well I'm glad you found this extra improvement. The kites I tend to use though don't require such bridal modifications as the r and D has already been done by the Company before they release the kite.
Just saying....
sorry eppo but ozone is one of the main brands that modify's there kites throughout the season releasing mods to team riders to tweak test and report back
i used to fly regularly with the ozone team riders in the uk and they used to pass on various mod's some to advance the kite in various ways but also passing on mods to to suit a preffered flying style that not everyone was after
ozone will release easily three or four different variations of the same kite in a season without you the customer knowing
chasta used to preach that a line length change from just a single knot can totally change the characteristics of a kite
and ozone when it hears good things about a tweak from R&D will immediately introduce it to their production lines rather than waiting till next year's kite
Just saying....
(also not brand bashing - I'm ozone all the way)
Yeh funny you say that found a difference in the 10m edge I bought mid way?
Without the customers knowing. Now here there in lies a big difference wouldn't you agree?
Ok so Ozone do it without the knowledge of the general public you say air junkie so what about the guys that buy earlier in the season do they not have the availability of the upgrade ,it would be nice if upgrades were posted on a web page so everyone could have the benefit,
Also Eppo I didn't call you simple minded mate I said you posted a narrow minded approach to the topic being discussed,
As kite designer says a minor bridal mod can alter the flying characteristics of most kites for the better ,I would doubt Chris holds back on his mods he's the sort of guy who is always striving for improvement and always makes his tweaks available to his customers.
Also on another note man the was a sick farkin ride today lit up on my 6m huge surf toesides for miles ,35-45 knots love days like this.
Well cool I'm learning something here, all good, that's what a forum is all about.
There is merit in this discussion I feel. Now....lol
Select to expand quoteradman4 said..
Ok so Ozone do it without the knowledge of the general public you say air junkie so what about the guys that buy earlier in the season do they not have the availability of the upgrade ,it would be nice if upgrades were posted on a web page so everyone could have the benefit,
Also Eppo I didn't call you simple minded mate I said you posted a narrow minded approach to the topic being discussed,
As kite designer says a minor bridal mod can alter the flying characteristics of most kites for the better ,I would doubt Chris holds back on his mods he's the sort of guy who is always striving for improvement and always makes his tweaks available to his customers.
Also on another note man the was a sick farkin ride today lit up on my 6m huge surf toesides for miles ,35-45 knots love days like this.
Nah. Not 30-40 here. Max we have had all week is 25. But I've been out everyday except thurs so all good.
Select to expand quotePlummet said..radman4 said..
Ok so Ozone do it without the knowledge of the general public you say air junkie so what about the guys that buy earlier in the season do they not have the availability of the upgrade ,it would be nice if upgrades were posted on a web page so everyone could have the benefit,
Also Eppo I didn't call you simple minded mate I said you posted a narrow minded approach to the topic being discussed,
As kite designer says a minor bridal mod can alter the flying characteristics of most kites for the better ,I would doubt Chris holds back on his mods he's the sort of guy who is always striving for improvement and always makes his tweaks available to his customers.
Also on another note man the was a sick farkin ride today lit up on my 6m huge surf toesides for miles ,35-45 knots love days like this.
Nah. Not 30-40 here. Max we have had all week is 25. But I've been out everyday except thurs so all good.
You would of enjoyed it down here today on your little REO but 25knots is a nice alternative
I lie max gust 29 knots. Which amusingly was while I was riding the 13 edge!... explains why I was a touch overpowered!!! hehehehe.
made for some floaty jumps. but when I came into the beach fully trimmed and kite parked at the edge bar out I was just skudding down the beach.
Yep that's when you know you have the edge in its performance zone. When you are getting dragged to the beach you always are amazed that on the water this power can be controlled so well. Also you know your eyeballs will be dry by the time you come in and your sphincter a little tighter!
well to be fair it was too much. Wind was 17-20 and I had a sweet session albeit a little underpowered on the 10c4 then I thought stuff it I feel like some jumps. but by the time I rigged the 13 wind had build to 23-25 and then a squall came in. I was getting punished a little bit. but still Boosted of this one 6foot dumper floated over it long enough for it to reform and land back on the face. yeha!
another time I boosted high lost my board. seemed like a couple of seconds past and then I heard it hit the water!. you know your high when your board takes a while to splash down!... I kept the boost going and came in for a perfect bodysurf landing straight into upwind bodydrag!! hehehehe.
Select to expand quoteairjunkie said...eppo said..
Well I'm glad you found this extra improvement. The kites I tend to use though don't require such bridal modifications as the r and D has already been done by the Company before they release the kite.
Just saying....
sorry eppo but ozone is one of the main brands that modify's there kites throughout the season releasing mods to team riders to tweak test and report back
i used to fly regularly with the ozone team riders in the uk and they used to pass on various mod's some to advance the kite in various ways but also passing on mods to to suit a preffered flying style that not everyone was after
ozone will release easily three or four different variations of the same kite in a season without you the customer knowing
chasta used to preach that a line length change from just a single knot can totally change the characteristics of a kite
and ozone when it hears good things about a tweak from R&D will immediately introduce it to their production lines rather than waiting till next year's kite
Just saying....
(also not brand bashing - I'm ozone all the way)
As chasta mentioned, I usually bin my pigtails on my ozones and add a multi knot pigtail allowing you to increase and decrease the amount you have your kite open or closed to the wind, just a knot change can keep me out on the same kite when you should be changing down or up a size, I've also been playing with an elasticated pigtail,
The 2006 Bridle mod for the Cab Crossbow was the first I can remember that worked. Made the kite from a tennis elbow maker to something more managable. The 2007 Red bridle to fix the Slingy Link didnt work, but nothing would have.
brid?al
/ˈbr?dl/
Adjective
Of or concerning a bride or a wedding.
Synonyms
nuptial - hymeneal - wedding......... Guys, dont red thumb eppo. He's just talking off topic, he wants a new wife...........
From the few bridle modifications I have done, I have found that kites are very sensitive to bridle mods - especially if there are pulleys involved.
A few millimetres difference in the length of a bridle that a pulley runs on can make a big difference in the effect on the line lengths.
You need to be careful because you could find the front lines seemingly become way too long or way too short (or possibly way out of balance side to side).
Its very easy to make an uncontrollable kite, and you should always check it flies OK when anchored after a mod before attaching it to yourself.
I think it is very cool that griffin release info for bridle mods when warranted. Other big name companies hold them back and make you pay for them on next seasons kites. As mentioned earlier in many cases a simple bridle mod may give the same perfomance increase as dropping 2k on a new kite.
I bet if you asked any kite designer they are never completely satisfied with the kite they produce and they are always trying to make their designs better. That is the nature of the process. That means constantly tweaking designs and every few months probably having a superior setup to what was released to market.
Select to expand quotebennie said..
I think it is very cool that griffin release info for bridle mods when warranted. Other big name companies hold them back and make you pay for them on next seasons kites. As mentioned earlier in many cases a simple bridle mod may give the same perfomance increase as dropping 2k on a new kite.
I bet if you asked any kite designer they are never completely satisfied with the kite they produce and they are always trying to make their designs better. That is the nature of the process. That means constantly tweaking designs and every few months probably having a superior setup to what was released to market.
This is very prevelent with the edges 2012 , basically if you buy a 2013 aramid bridle and put it on your 2012 it brings it up to 2013 spec,
I agree with Bennie on the mods. Chris has sent me down different mods or given me measurements to test his ideas and give feedback. In almost all cases the kites flew better. Because the Trx lacked some bottom end initially Chris was working hard to find that magic balance that gave great bottom end without sacrificing what the kite excelled at. And through this process he has succeeded in coming up with an amazing kite. I guess lots of other designers also started looking at what he was doing because now there are more three strut surf kites out there.
As mentioned, being a designer is hard work and I don't think they are ever totally satisfied with their results. Sometimes they push a design as far as they can and move on knowing that they have exhausted most of the possibilities. Then they come up with new concepts and start again looking for the holy grail. Thank goodness that there are designers out there who keep pushing the boundaries, much like surf board shapers did through the evolution of modern surfing.
