Kite Lines

Kurt's right ,
try, Q power pro line set , are the best on the market, no spring at all, way better than standand linesets . I highly recommend them, read the thread below from best kite forum, interesting reading forsure




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katoa



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 27

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: Q-LINES

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Who knows the Q-pro power lines, and there does a real difference with the standard lines?
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KATOA
HP 12 ? HP 7
WP 13 (50 bar)
WP 9 (45 bar)
130X36 custommade
134X39 custommade
135X41 custommade
http://ajacciokite.fr

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bigkahuna



Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 69

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:56 am Post subject:

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The Q-Power Pro lines are thinner than the standard Q-Power lines. They are made from a different type of Spectra which allows them to make them thinner.

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kusu



Joined: 21 Apr 2005
Posts: 428
Location: Australia
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:42 am Post subject:

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I have been running the q pro lines for a few months now.
Disclaimer - I sell these lines now!

Good
- kite is has a considerable more direct feel - faster
- You can make new loops when the old ones wear
Bad
- can cost more than normal lines if you don't shop around

Other points
- they whistle through the air
- a fraction harder to run out - slightly more tangles
- they get small bumps in the line from inner core stretch relevant to outer braid. I have over come this on the loop end by using pig tails.

Are they worth it? I reckon they they are for sure.

I got a special order (3km of line sets) in Red blue and white for a colour coded setup.
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Kurt Savage
Brisbane Kite Boarding,

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purdyd



Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 770

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject:

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Quote:

I got a special order (3km of line sets) in Red blue and white for a colour coded setup.


you got red and blue?????? i am jealous ;)

yeah pig tails are a must

David

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PowerLine Sports



Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 5

Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:51 pm Post subject: Q-Pro vs Q-Standard

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Maybe I can help a little bit. When I designed the two lines I basically made them the same except that I used higher tenacity (strength) fibers for the center outside braids on the Pro. This makes a thinner line with a slightly higher strength. This will translate into less drag and therefore slightly higher performance. As to if the Pro is worth the difference in price vs the Standard Q-PowerLine. That is really up to the flyer. Both lines far outperform standard braided lines and normally outlast them by a factor of 5. The Pro is really designed for the flyer that wants the best that we can make.
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Brian Smith
PowerLine Sports
4 Windbrook Crescent
Kanata, Ontario
K2M 1L4

Skype: powerlinesports
Email: BSmith@PowerLine-Sports.com

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tomtomtom



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 76

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject:

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Brian,

It is an honor and privilege to have the designer of Q Power line enter into the discussion of kite lines. For the last 6 years, a number of my kiteboarding friends and myself have been a big fan of Q Power line. I would love to have you give us a brief history of the discovery or development of Q Power line. You can probably dispel some of the myths concerning this line.

Question #1: Was this line originally designed for some sort of "long-line" fishing application?
.......................................

Question #2: Is there still a problem with some of the "white" line? Here is what one of my friends stated in a discussion on Kiteforum:


"I would avoid using the white colored lines. For some reason, I have found the white lines to be a problem for 2 reasons:

(1) They spiral...that is, the line retains memory of the windings on the spool for ever, it seems. This is a big problem if the 4 or 5 lines are left out in the wind for any length of time, for instance, during a self-launch....the lines really tangle up with themselves and each other.

(2) The sheathing slides over the core fibers and wrinkles. This will happen as you pre-stretch the lines. I found that it was best not the prestretch the white lines.

(3) Why do the orange or yellow colored Q-Power lines not do the above 2 things? "

Here is a link to the discussion of Q Power line on this thread from Kiteforum:

kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2335258&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

One poster stated:

"The color bleeds off the orange or yellow colored lines for about the first 10 sessions, and stains your kite, hands, etc....but I still like these lines better. You could probably soak the Orange or Yellow lines in water and then rub off the excess dye with a few passes with a rag... it might get rid of the problem, before you stain anything of value.

I like to use Q-power lines because you can untie and retie the larkshead overhand knots to adjust the line lengths. This feature allows you to customize the line length and leader length, and most importantly, allows you to make up for the line stretch which will occur for about 30 sessions of normal use .....or one good, out-of-control kite spin-loop-drag incident.

I think the quality of the line, and maybe, even the composition of the line varies. I once saw a guy break 2 Q-power lines, the first time he took them out. I have had no line breakage in 5 years of using Q-Power...just lucky? "


It was also stated:

"I would love to know what the line was originally manufactured for...long line fishing? Anyone know, for sure? I picture it coming on huge spools holding miles of the line, at a cost of about a penny a meter. I would like to know more about this fascinating line...."

Another person said:

"Don't get the pro...get the regular Q-Power line. The pro is different, it's not stiff.

I love this stuff. It's stiff like wire, but it doesn't tangle on itself in the wind. It also doesn't catch on every little piece of gear (like velcro on your booties) and cut your fingers and toes off. You can grab it and not get cut (as easily). "

Also stated:

"Oh and the only drawback I've found is the noise... it makes a lot of noise in the wind... maybe it's a good thing really because you can actually guess the wind speed by the howl! "

..............................

Question #3: Is it possible that your design has been pirated? One of my friends felt that the white Q Power line which had the "memory kinking" problem which was being sold was in fact inferior pirated stock. He based this theory on the fact that in one major kiteboarding city in the NW, the price of Q Power line varied from 8 cents a foot (in 500 foot spools) all the way to $3.00 a foot (bought in small quantity).

Hopefully, you can answer these questions and dispel a lot of the myth about your product, without disclosing proprietary information.

Thanks in advance for any historical and technical information you can give us knowledge seekers and Q Power fans.

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purdyd



Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 770

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject:

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Quote:
You can probably dispel some of the myths concerning this line.
.


i can say, there is no difference between white and the other colors - my experience

the colored lines bleed and then stop bleeding

they are stiffer but when you run them out they grab each more and are harder to untwist

when they are new they are slipperier

they can last a long time

since they are less springy then some lines - it would seem that they may be more susceptible to sudden jerks breaking them

i have never broken a q line - i have cut through the sheath and seen the fibers and still kited on on them

i prefer the q powerline pro - smaller diameter

they do tend to hum - i am guessing because they are round and smooth

good kiting!

David

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katoa



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 27

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject:

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I live in Corsica (france) how to buy? Please Mister POWER-LINES.
_________________
KATOA
HP 12 ? HP 7
WP 13 (50 bar)
WP 9 (45 bar)
130X36 custommade
134X39 custommade
135X41 custommade
http://ajacciokite.fr

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PowerLine Sports



Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 5

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: Where to buy in France

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I do not know of a distributor in France that is currently carrying Q-PowerLine. You can try Surf & Kite in Denmark or Wind Designs in the UK or if you prefer you can contact me directly at bsmith@powerline-sports.com and I will get some lines to you.

Regards,
Brian


Quote:
I live in Corsica (france) how to buy? Please Mister POWER-LINES.

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Brian Smith
PowerLine Sports
4 Windbrook Crescent
Kanata, Ontario
K2M 1L4

Skype: powerlinesports
Email: BSmith@PowerLine-Sports.com

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PowerLine Sports



Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 5

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: Trying to dispel some myths or clear up some misunderstandin

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Q-Powerline no matter what the color come off the same line, the same machines and utilize the same materials. However, it is important to realize that Q-PowerLine has changed many times over the years with continual improvements. With that in mind I'll try to answer each of the concerns individually:
a) Bleeding Color: Since safety is an important issue we try to make the colors as vibrant as possible. We use nanoparticulate dyes to color the line since Spectra and Dyneema fibers have no real binding sites for dye molocules to bond to. These dyes work by far the best, but still when applied heavy enough they can "rub off". What is actually happening is that the little dye "platlets" that are sticking out of the surface break off. To overcome this problem the line has been coated with a very thin layer of polyurethane. This has several advantages, it pretty much eliminates dye transfer and it seals the line against dirt intrusion eliminating premature line failure. All Q-PowerLines currently being manufactured have the propriatory polyurethane coating as a final topcoat including the white.

b) Unlike other lines on the market we quite dramatically underate Q-PowerLine to give the flyer a good safety margin. We do not attribute any strength to the outer sheath (which has a breaking strength of it's own of over 300 lbs) and only use the inner core fibers which break over the rated strength. So yes Q-Powerline is less "springy" than other lines on the market. This gives you much better kite response, and we make sure they don't break easily by over engineering them.

c) Line "Hummmmmm" - This is due to the taught line vibrating as it passes through the air. Much line a guitar string. All lines will vibrate when they pass through the air. The higher the pitch of the sound you hear the lower the amplitude between the null nodes on the line. Or to put it in more basic terms, the higher the whine of the lines the lower the effective diameter and therefore the drag on the line due to "ribbon effect". Standard braided lines are actually hollow braids that are either flat in cross section or square if pulled tight. They vibrate as well but at a much lower frequency and higher amplitude, creating a greater "effective diameter" and consequently more drag.


Quote:
Quote:
You can probably dispel some of the myths concerning this line.
.


i can say, there is no difference between white and the other colors - my experience

the colored lines bleed and then stop bleeding

they are stiffer but when you run them out they grab each more and are harder to untwist

when they are new they are slipperier

they can last a long time

since they are less springy then some lines - it would seem that they may be more susceptible to sudden jerks breaking them

i have never broken a q line - i have cut through the sheath and seen the fibers and still kited on on them

i prefer the q powerline pro - smaller diameter

they do tend to hum - i am guessing because they are round and smooth

good kiting!

David

_________________
Brian Smith
PowerLine Sports
4 Windbrook Crescent
Kanata, Ontario
K2M 1L4

Skype: powerlinesports
Email: BSmith@PowerLine-Sports.com

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PowerLine Sports



Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 5

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:55 pm Post subject: Q-PowerLines - Addressing some Myths and Misconceptions

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It is an honor and privilege to have the designer of Q Power line enter into the discussion of kite lines.

The honor is all mine

For the last 6 years, a number of my kiteboarding friends and myself have been a big fan of Q Power line. I would love to have you give us a brief history of the discovery or development of Q Power line. You can probably dispel some of the myths concerning this line.

Question #1: Was this line originally designed for some sort of "long-line" fishing application?
.......................................

Actually it's close to the opposite. I originally designed Q-PowerLine when I was partnered with Rene Kung from Switzerland producing and distributing a brand of kites called "Quadrifoil". I was frustrated with my lines always breaking and after speaking with a friend who owned a Spectra Braiding facility, decided to try to design the "ultimate traction kite line". This was back in the early 90's and I am still improving the line every year as better fibers, coating, dyes and manufacturing techniques become available. We now make more than 6 different versions of the line for KiteSurfing (the 1st application), SpearFishing, Kayak Control Cables, Ballooning, Military applications, and fairly recently downrigger fishing!


Question #2: Is there still a problem with some of the "white" line? Here is what one of my friends stated in a discussion on Kiteforum:

There have been continual improvements with all the lines so I would say no. However, please be aware that there have been at least 5 attempts that we know of in creating "Knock Offs" of the line. And it is very difficult to do, both because we have quite a few "secrets" up our sleeve and also because we use machines specifically designed to make this product and only this product as we found that commercially available braiding machines could not properly produce the line.

"I would avoid using the white colored lines. For some reason, I have found the white lines to be a problem for 2 reasons:

(1) They spiral...that is, the line retains memory of the windings on the spool for ever, it seems. This is a big problem if the 4 or 5 lines are left out in the wind for any length of time, for instance, during a self-launch....the lines really tangle up with themselves and each other.

This should not be a problem unless the lines were allways wound in the same direction. Unlike a standard braid that absorbs the twists in the line which tends to shorten the fibers lifespan. Q-PowerLine by it's construction is more like a monofilament cable. You need to wind it up in one direction and unwind it in the other.

(2) The sheathing slides over the core fibers and wrinkles. This will happen as you pre-stretch the lines. I found that it was best not the prestretch the white lines.

This would be due to the outer sheath not being braided tight enough and should not be a problem with Q-PowerLine unless there was some problem in manufacturing. It was a problem with one sample of a knock off that I was sent. I know it is not a problem with the current line.

(3) Why do the orange or yellow colored Q-Power lines not do the above 2 things? "

The lines are exactly alike so they should all exhibit the same characteristics.
Here is a link to the discussion of Q Power line on this thread from Kiteforum:

kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2335258&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

One poster stated:

"The color bleeds off the orange or yellow colored lines for about the first 10 sessions, and stains your kite, hands, etc....but I still like these lines better. You could probably soak the Orange or Yellow lines in water and then rub off the excess dye with a few passes with a rag... it might get rid of the problem, before you stain anything of value.

Current Q-PowerLine with the PU topcoat does not cause this type of color transfer.

I like to use Q-power lines because you can untie and retie the larkshead overhand knots to adjust the line lengths. This feature allows you to customize the line length and leader length, and most importantly, allows you to make up for the line stretch which will occur for about 30 sessions of normal use .....or one good, out-of-control kite spin-loop-drag incident.

I think the quality of the line, and maybe, even the composition of the line varies. I once saw a guy break 2 Q-power lines, the first time he took them out. I have had no line breakage in 5 years of using Q-Power...just lucky? "

No your experience is normal. I can only surmise that either the rider was not using "real" Q-PowerLine or the rider who had the lines break on him either had cuts in his lines or tied the knots incorrectly in the line, causing the line to cut through itself.

It was also stated:

"I would love to know what the line was originally manufactured for...long line fishing? Anyone know, for sure? I picture it coming on huge spools holding miles of the line, at a cost of about a penny a meter. I would like to know more about this fascinating line...."

Currently the longest length we can manufacture is around 4500 feet. The limitation is due to the length of the sheath fibers which are approximately 20 times longer than the linear core fibers. Honeywell currently can only manufacture doffs of fiber at a maximum of around 90,000 feet.

Another person said:

"Don't get the pro...get the regular Q-Power line. The pro is different, it's not stiff.

This flyer is correct, the Pro is not as stiff as the Standard Q-PowerLine. this is because the Pro is thinner, utilizing a higher tenacity Spectra Fiber in both the outer sheath and inner core. The lower diameter translates into some loss in stiffness.

I love this stuff. It's stiff like wire, but it doesn't tangle on itself in the wind. It also doesn't catch on every little piece of gear (like velcro on your booties) and cut your fingers and toes off. You can grab it and not get cut (as easily). "

This is mainly because the line does not flatten out like a hollow braid does.

Also stated:

"Oh and the only drawback I've found is the noise... it makes a lot of noise in the wind... maybe it's a good thing really because you can actually guess the wind speed by the howl! "

Please see my earlier explaination regarding line frequency and amplitude.

..............................

Question #3: Is it possible that your design has been pirated? One of my friends felt that the white Q Power line which had the "memory kinking" problem which was being sold was in fact inferior pirated stock. He based this theory on the fact that in one major kiteboarding city in the NW, the price of Q Power line varied from 8 cents a foot (in 500 foot spools) all the way to $3.00 a foot (bought in small quantity).

Yes people have tried many times, however not successfully. If the line is really cheap beware. It could just be that someone found they had purchased to much or are going out of business and want to dump the line but it could also be a knock off. Pricing in North America should be around 24 cents a foot or less so if someone is getting $3.00 a foot they are making a pretty good profit margin

Hopefully, you can answer these questions and dispel a lot of the myth about your product, without disclosing proprietary information.

Thanks in advance for any historical and technical information you can give us knowledge seekers and Q Power fans.