Forums > Kitesurfing General

Is it time for helmets?

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Created by wldistel > 9 months ago, 8 Mar 2012
mitch88
NSW, 271 posts
8 Mar 2012 6:06PM
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shall people in boats or ski craft wear motorcycle helmets? its the risk we all take in an extreme sport and the decision should be yours! fair enough if you ride a motorbike (i do and i wouldn't go out without my leathers and helmet) as for safety briefings, tool box's, SWMS, JSA's etc etc i do them all day i don't want to be standing on the beach with 20 knots on my back talking about kiting. everyone should just talk to each other etc and its all about knowing your local crew and how they ride, who to avoid etc. it can be a safe sport just with common sense. unfortunately some people dont have that.

than again no good to hear about any kitesurfer's injured!

Jonopark
WA, 400 posts
8 Mar 2012 3:08PM
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Hahahahaha. Wow everyone here is pro helmets but at my locals (metro perth) I rarely ever see one. Not knocking them (its up to the user and
I wear a hat) but mandatory!
Are you serious!!
Will I also have to wear kneepads!!! Also it seems Australia
Is the only country where helmets are compulsory on a push bike. And they are not good for protecting the
Spine. In fact the opposite.
Windsufers don't even wear them and look at the amount of solid junk they have to hit. And a lot faster than us. Yes they may save a few cuts but lives???
Harden up seabreeze. What's next mouth guards, hi vis vests, safety googles???
It's a sport and people will get hurt In safety protection or without.

Saffer
VIC, 4501 posts
8 Mar 2012 6:15PM
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Jonopark said...

Hahahahaha. Wow everyone here is pro helmets but at my locals (metro perth) I rarely ever see one. Not knocking them (its up to the user and
I wear a hat) but mandatory!
Are you serious!!
Will I also have to wear kneepads!!! Also it seems Australia
Is the only country where helmets are compulsory on a push bike. And they are not good for protecting the
Spine. In fact the opposite.
Windsufers don't even wear them and look at the amount of solid junk they have to hit. And a lot faster than us. Yes they may save a few cuts but lives???
Harden up seabreeze. What's next mouth guards, hi vis vests, safety googles???
It's a sport and people will get hurt In safety protection or without.




And this is exactly the sort of post which explains why beginners don't use them when they should. Its all about being cool and anyone who does wear them is a kook.

Incidentally, when was the last time you heard about a windsurfer that got lofted? Or the last time a beginner was hooked into his windsurfer and got dragged across the beach? How many windsurfers learn to windsurf on land by flying their sail?

Different sports, different requirements.

I agree that it shouldn't be mandatory but treating those who wear helmets with disdain does nothing for the sport and only endangers those who may have worn them to learn.

Jonopark
WA, 400 posts
8 Mar 2012 3:34PM
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Saffer, I said it's up to the user. I wear a bucket hat as I believe the risk the sun poses is much more serious than a fatal head on collision with a hard object. It's simple risk assessment
If you believe your at risk, by all means take necessary precautions.
And wind surfers are going very fast with a massive board and metal poles to hit. No sh$t they don't get lofted but they have so much more material which is also solid to get knocked out on. (in water this can be a little dangerous)
Therefore I asses this as more risk. Simple mate.
Seems like when something goes wrong there is a massive knee jerk reaction here on sb.

Plummet
4862 posts
8 Mar 2012 3:39PM
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i wear a helmet. its engrained into me from years of mountain biking. I have to say a helmet has saved my life about 6 times over the years. 1 time landboarding and 1 time kitesurfing.

If you think you don't need a helmet quite frankley your wrong. you just have been lucky. it only takes one fluke accident to kill you for fark you up....

any way weat one, don't wear one its your decision.

I do have a problem in the fact i can't find a decent water helmet. the gaths etc are complete and utter crap and they are stupidly expensive. I'm wearing my mountain bike helmet. I like i tool. but because i don't wear boardies outside my wettie i don't give a shiit what i look like. at least i can take a knock and kite again tomorrow.

AquaPlow
QLD, 1062 posts
8 Mar 2012 5:49PM
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NickT said...

Attaching leash to an outer line = deathloops if you accidently unhook or release Chickenloop. Unless its an oh Sh!t handle where the line can run free and flag the kite out.


Not true . My first kite (Naish Aero II) and I think most others had safety attachment point above the bar on the right front line. If you dropped the bar - like as not the chicken loop un-hooked (no DonkeyD's back then).. and the kite flagged because this line stayed and the bar with the other 3 lines went towards the kite. The safety line had a plastic stopper about 15 metres up the line - but you still ended up with a dreadlock mess of lines.

Depower as we know it today came about thru' SLE bridle design.
Spinning out the lines was a painful. Riding suicide was not uncommon but not a good combo with high winds...

As for re-launch - well ... someone else can relate that one!!

When I started, I cracked a rib on a sand bank Altona way (the tide had gone out a fair bit) and the instructor (certified etc etc from one of this sites sponsors) did not include safety equipment. After that I bought impact harness and Gath helmet and religiously carried a hook knife.. Just wear the Gath helmet these days...

But I have to threaten my kid to wear a helmet - he doesn't by choice -- unless he is using the GOPRO.

Cheers

AP

lotofwind
NSW, 6451 posts
8 Mar 2012 6:49PM
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If I had a brain, I would wear one.

Saffer
VIC, 4501 posts
8 Mar 2012 6:51PM
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Jonopark said...

Saffer, I said it's up to the user. I wear a bucket hat as I believe the risk the sun poses is much more serious than a fatal head on collision with a hard object. It's simple risk assessment
If you believe your at risk, by all means take necessary precautions.
And wind surfers are going very fast with a massive board and metal poles to hit. No sh$t they don't get lofted but they have so much more material which is also solid to get knocked out on. (in water this can be a little dangerous)
Therefore I asses this as more risk. Simple mate.
Seems like when something goes wrong there is a massive knee jerk reaction here on sb.


100% agree they shouldn't be mandatory for kiting and people shouldn't be forced to wear them. I actually agree with the same for cycling although I think it should be mandatory for young kids.

All I'm saying is I don't believe we should go down the approach of this attitude that its uncool to wear a helmet. I've seen a lot of beginners who want to wear them and don't because they don't want to look like an idiot on the beach. Thats a sad reflection of how the more experienced kiter's attitudes to protective gear affects what beginners do.

Plummet said...

i wear a helmet. its engrained into me from years of mountain biking. I have to say a helmet has saved my life about 6 times over the years. 1 time landboarding and 1 time kitesurfing.

If you think you don't need a helmet quite frankley your wrong. you just have been lucky. it only takes one fluke accident to kill you for fark you up....

any way weat one, don't wear one its your decision.

I do have a problem in the fact i can't find a decent water helmet. the gaths etc are complete and utter crap and they are stupidly expensive. I'm wearing my mountain bike helmet. I like i tool. but because i don't wear boardies outside my wettie i don't give a shiit what i look like. at least i can take a knock and kite again tomorrow.


Look at some of the wake boarding ones. I agree Gath are crap, they aren't designed for kitesurfing, they're designed for surfers who have to contend with a surfboard hitting their head or bumping their head on a reef.

The wake boarding ones are design for impacts with kickers and sliders which makes them better. Protec is one brand, there are a couple of others. I think Mystic may make one now.

wldistel
QLD, 91 posts
8 Mar 2012 5:52PM
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Jonopark,


I agree that mandatory would be a mistake but there's no denying that safety equipment has benefited the sport. I assume you have a 4 or 5 line kite and a leash?

We are just discussing the merits.
I'm personally interested as I feel embraced to wear a helmet, as I'm sure lots of surfers are. Like it or not the sport is growing at a great rate and if we don't discus these issues and think about safety than someone in government will do it for us.

I agree that it should be personal preference but my concern is that beginners have no possible way of making an informed decision. If we are truly passionate about our sport than we will push for a safer and more controlled training system. This is self regulation at its best. I can't see any other way of giving people the best chance while learning than some form of regulation. Once experienced and educated than one is better equipment to make an informed decision and I don't see any need for further education.

cwamit
WA, 1194 posts
8 Mar 2012 6:05PM
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helmots are for pussey's , i have smaked my hed plenty off tynes and nuffing is rong whith me - rok on

richswing
WA, 724 posts
8 Mar 2012 6:53PM
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I'm cool - and I wear one

I hate the nanny state mentality, I deal with the pathetic approach to everything these healthy and safety @sses come up with and they have never held a tool in the hand or have done anything remotely similar to the instruction they have just came up with.

I agree that they are only required near shore but saying that I have been smacked in the head a couple of times finn first by more kitesurfboard (which is alot harder than a std surfboard).

I think it should be an option but the mind set changed by pro kiters etc for the future generation, they can even make it cool by have a radio link to the compettitor in compitions - it could even be funny what comes out the guys mouth when he stacks it.

I think they are totally uncool but I have my reason why I wear one (they keep my sunnies on )

Cheers
Rich

kiteryder
WA, 6 posts
8 Mar 2012 10:08PM
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i always wear a helmet, had it for wakeboarding and when i started kiting seemed silly to leave it in the shed.
is a protec B2 wake, comes in heaps of colours, removable ear flaps to stop perforated ear drums if you have a big stack, super comfortable. if you pick a bright colour also makes you really easy to see if you end up doing a swim in! (noone is going to run your head over with a fin and maybe someone will even come to help...)
My board has hit me in the back of the head in surf and was glad i was wearing it.

simonp
213 posts
9 Mar 2012 5:17AM
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I've been thinking about helmets this week too. We had a weather bomb last weekend (gusty 30-40+ knots) and the noise while wearing a Gath style helmet was deafening. I have a kayak helmet as well but it is a bit bulky. I saw a wake boarders helmet on sale online this week so we'll give it a go and maybe it will have street cred as well

Jared888
WA, 389 posts
9 Mar 2012 5:36AM
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Garauntee that there are more pros than cons to wearing a helmet i'll start with a few

PRO , good go pro mount.
, Protect your ears aginst surfers ear a little
, some come with visors to protect the eyes

CON, ??? cant really think of and cons to wearing one

I wear one about 15% of the time and when I dont its just because im lazy and cant be bothered trecking back to car to get it or its at home because I took it inside to download gopro photage.

sebol
WA, 753 posts
9 Mar 2012 8:30AM
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Another major side effect of wearing a helmet is that it appears to increase greatly your seebreeze usage.

Since 95% of people don't wear one on the water, I am impressed by the large majority of users in this thread.

Worth investigating, maybe more time on the internet = less fitness = less time on water = less skills = more prone to accidents = rightfully wear a helmet

wldistel
QLD, 91 posts
9 Mar 2012 10:50AM
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ouch but true

Peterc150
VIC, 710 posts
9 Mar 2012 12:02PM
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I started kitesurfing wearing an old Gath Helmet and used it for three years. It once protected my head from a bad bump on my board in Bali - I was happy I was wearing it. Another time I had a big crash on a jump as my kite zoomed back through the power zone and I burst an ear drum on impact - wearing the helmet.

I now wear a Protec that has better impact protection.



It also keeps my head warm and my sunglasses on. I am happy to have it for some impact protection in case something unexpected goes wrong. For example, I could taken out be Jetski, and was very nearly hit by a windsurfer going at full tilt.

I figure my brain is worth $100

As an aside, helmets are not mandatory for Jetski riders in Victoria, but they do have to have a boating licence with PWC endorsement.

Most of my mates don't wear a helmet when kitesurfing. Nobody gives me any cr@p about wearing it, apart from a few posters on Seabreeze who seem to think its "uncool".

I don't think helmets should be mandatory. But if a kitesurfing licence were to be introduced (as appears inevitable with recent accidents + deaths and irresponsible behaviour by a few + some novices who refuse to take lessons), maybe they should be mandatory for kiters for the first year while they are on "P plates".

eppo
WA, 9686 posts
9 Mar 2012 9:25AM
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There is merit in this idea, but again it comes down to personal choice. or we hope it will stay that way. Just about everything is regulated, let's hop this is not one of them. What about surfers - in my mind and experience a helmet would be useful especially as most place I surf involve shallow reef!

I', with puppet and others I hate wearing anything, and If I could kite naked and not get charged with indecent exposure I would.

But yes tragic incidents are there to make us ponder and hopefully improve.

Maybe (and they moght do), when gettting lessons they should teach people how to fall. Bum first if possible! also what i find with beginners is they over steer when ot of control very similar to when driving on gravel. My philosophy is if you stuff up take the hit, but let the kite move itself to the edge of the wiindow/crash in the water/land and accept the first pull and hit. Most problems I see occur because crew try to correct their mistake causing the 'teabagging' issue down the beach.

Accept you fate and brace! also land 'flat' and this require you to know where you are in 3d space.

robbo1111
NSW, 646 posts
9 Mar 2012 1:01PM
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Jonopark said...

Saffer, I said it's up to the user. I wear a bucket hat as I believe the risk the sun poses is much more serious than a fatal head on collision with a hard object. It's simple risk assessment


Agree 100%, I wear a helmet or bucket hat depending on conditions but primarilly as sun protection due to thinning hair line and fair skin.

COL
NSW, 554 posts
9 Mar 2012 2:05PM
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Saffer said...

I agree with helmets but I don't believe it should be mandatory. I've always worn a helmet (agreement with my wife) but it still should be personal choice.



Luv it Saffer
It's been your choice to do what the missus told you to, so that's OK.
Only havin' a laugh, I think you've made good points.
Col

Plummet
4862 posts
9 Mar 2012 11:14AM
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All those helmets pictured are crap!... they have a big plasticy bit at the front of the helmet. Shiit house. The ideal helmet need the plastic intergrated into the foam.

I have a 4cm scare on my forehead from one of those puding bowl style helmets.

The foam was squashed flat and then the hard plastic split my head open.

thats the main reason i'm still running a mountain bike helmet. heaps better technology at a better price.

hamburglar
ACT, 2174 posts
9 Mar 2012 2:24PM
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lotofwind said...

If I had a brain, I would wear one.


and here i was thinking it's a consequence of you not wearing one!
go figure

TurtleHunter
WA, 1675 posts
9 Mar 2012 11:37AM
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eppo said...



I', with puppet and others I hate wearing anything, and If I could kite naked and not get charged with indecent exposure I would.



I can just see you all coming up here next year kiting naked. It might be a bit much of a temptation for the turtles though

Gorgo
VIC, 5097 posts
9 Mar 2012 3:06PM
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The bottom line is all the helmets used for kiteboarding are crap.

They're fine for keeping the sun off your head.

They're fine for stopping a minor bump from your board.

They're probably ok for a low speed glancing blow (which is what all the water/snow certifications are designed for).

They might help with ear injuries provided you have ear covers (but that makes them worse for wind noise).

They're hopeless when it comes to water drag.

They're hopeless for wind noise.

They're terrible for whiplash injuries.

They're completely useless for a full speed impact into rocks or hard sand.

The only kind of helmet that would be any good for full speed impact is a motorcycle helmet, but that brings a whole host of problems.

There is also an image problem attached to helmet/PFD etc wearing riders. It's ok to wear and promote safety gear. But if you portray yourself as an expert and a safety advocate but your skills are barely past beginner level then you have a huge credibility problem and that taints everything you say. It is much more effective to learn the basic skills of kiting than to try and compensate by wearing body armour and lecturing people about safety.

richswing
WA, 724 posts
9 Mar 2012 12:54PM
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The Protec helmets are multiple impact helmets as apposed to the polystyrene insert types that only work once.

My Protec helmet foam is quite thick and would battle to squash the foam to the extent that the plastic comes into contact with my head but I will have a look the next time I wear it.

Gath helmets are not ideal for kiting otherthan they do offer some protection and streamline through the water.

Rich

Gorgo
VIC, 5097 posts
9 Mar 2012 4:40PM
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Water helmets are certified to EN 1385

From the CE/EN web site

This European Standard specifies requirements for helmets for canoeing and white water sports for use in waters of classes 1 to 4 as classified by Clause 4. The levels of protection recognise that most fatalities in canoeing and white water sports result from drowning after concussion and not from brain damage. This European Standard is not intended to apply to helmets for use in extreme white water situations such as those where the jumping of high waterfalls is undertaken, because the need for impact absorption for such a helmet, and the area of the head to be protected, are greater than those for most canoeing and white water sports. The standard applies to helmets with and without holes in the shell. NOTE This European Standard does not provide performance requirements for visors, chin-guards or face-guards.

JohnnoKeys
WA, 551 posts
9 Mar 2012 1:49PM
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Been kiting 12 years no helmet - ever

2 months ago on my race board face planted at 20plus knots and nearly knocked myself out 2km off beach in 15knots of wind. Smashed a hole through carbon deck & rail of board with my temple. NOw I wear my helmet 100% of time on my race board & still never on my surfboard? What the .....

I got a carbon kayaking helmet that is designed to take full impact strikes from rocks, seems to be pretty safe to me.

Gorgo
VIC, 5097 posts
9 Mar 2012 5:52PM
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^^^ what brand/model is the helmet?

kitingtopher
SA, 313 posts
9 Mar 2012 6:07PM
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gath ..... keeps the sun of and the brains in. i have seen gath's split on the temple area by a recoiling rear fixed thruster fin result would have been death .... must have in my view

Lonestar
WA, 11 posts
9 Mar 2012 3:42PM
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I came off the back of a ute last August which smashed my brain requiring a large removal of skull which you can see in the rapid prototype they made of the job. Although repaired with a titanium plate, I want to get back into kitesurfing next season and am yet to find a helmet that is recommended and that actually fits. Can the helmet manufacturers up their game and get some good kit available for those that choose to wear helmets.

I don't think helmets should be compulsory but s%$t happens and it can have a large impact on your life...no matter how good you are.



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"Is it time for helmets?" started by wldistel