With North and other kite brands now charging over $3000 for kite and bar, I was wondering what's the most you've all paid for a kite and bar?
Select to expand quotebjw said..
With North and other kite brands now charging over $3000 for kite and bar, I was wondering what's the most you've all paid for a kite and bar?
3g? wow. out of hand. i knoe cabrinha is trying to bring thier price down. smart move, wonder about other brands for next year. I will say quality is pretty good these days so atleast your gear will last.
True. Cab seems to be being more reasonable. They still have a bar available for 800 bucks. But they have a 650 option too. You think that'll sway a lot of people away from North. But they are the highest selling brand and have been expensive for a while now, so who knows.
Wait one year and get the same kite neary half price. I do miss the days when a S/H kite "held its value".
Select to expand quotebjw said..
True. Cab seems to be being more reasonable. They still have a bar available for 800 bucks. But they have a 650 option too. You think that'll sway a lot of people away from North. But they are the highest selling brand and have been expensive for a while now, so who knows.
A few years ago (they blamed our dollar as an excuse) Cab kites went from $2k complete to about $2.6k, so I'm guessing they haven't increased prices for a while now. There also seems to be a hell of a lot more kite brands on the market now playing in the $1k mark.
Jeeeezus!
I was 2nd hand kites for nearly a decade, then first ever brand new one was a switch, got a new kite and bar for $1250 I think. Still going strong 2 and a bit years later
When inflatable kites were first sold in Australia, a naish or wipika 9m (the biggest you could buy) were about $1800 complete, they had 2 lines and tried to kill you.
Now kites are a highly refined and safe bit of kit you can have an enormous amount of fun on and will last a lot longer than those early kites too, at least 2-3 times longer. There 4 lines, instead of 2, the lines are stronger, thinner, less stretchy. Kite materials have also been made several times more durable. Even the bags are amazingly better.
The reality is that kite prices have only kept pace with inflation, but their quality has improved massively in that same timeframe.
Steve I completely agree that kites have only increased marginally over 10 years but I think the point is that originally and now they are still way over priced. At the end of the day is only a few m2 of materiel with a few days stitching for someone who knows what they are doing.
I would love to know the original cost of manufacturing, little Chinese guy $7.50, materiel, $40??? I think once the big company stamp them that's when the cost goes up, and again with the 10 other people making a wage along the way?
None of the above is evidence based so correct me but as I say I would love to see a PO for manufacturing.
Agree with Gazuki ,the average wage in oz is $72,000.Except property on east coast ,all consumer goods have dropped in price,except ????.Fokn airfares of all things have dropped. The toyota corolla is selling at 1994 price. Groceries down.T.V.s electrical down.How much did kite prices drop when the oz dollar was $1.05 U.S. The reality is kites are inflatable.
There's plenty of other companies other than the big 4 so I'm seriously considering a switch element for the next purchase one for the price point and two to see how it flys back to back with a " top end brand "also there is not much of a second hand market as the prices you see in the classifieds are pretty far removed from what the seller gets in the end (again just an opinion ) like previous poster said would be interesting to know production price minus marketing etc etc 
How much for a happy ending...
my Switch Element 5 (7m) was about $800 - kite only.
Select to expand quoteGazuki said..
Steve I completely agree that kites have only increased marginally over 10 years but I think the point is that originally and now they are still way over priced. At the end of the day is only a few m2 of materiel with a few days stitching for someone who knows what they are doing.
I would love to know the original cost of manufacturing, little Chinese guy $7.50, materiel, $40??? I think once the big company stamp them that's when the cost goes up, and again with the 10 other people making a wage along the way?
None of the above is evidence based so correct me but as I say I would love to see a PO for manufacturing.
If you think the production cost of a kite is around $50 you are completely delusional... Kite brands spend several hundreds (most of the time in US dollars) to produce each complete kite+bar+lines+bag+leash. And that cost doesn't include the initial setup costs like building some custom molds, the time spent designing the products, producing prototypes, general R&D, travel cost, staff wages, etc. On top of delivery costs to AUS you have to add custom fees and taxes.
The only way to significantly reduce the cost to the customer is to sell direct from the factory to the customer (skip the distributor, skip the shop), which is exactly what Switch is doing, but then you don't have the same customer service you would have in a shop for example.
In a way you could say we're lucky kites actually don't cost MORE. Can you imagine if kites were made in Australia or anywhere else where the workers wages are much higher ? Kites would cost thousands MORE.
Christian
How much does any buisness charge?
kites
surfboards
boats
cars
supermarkets
whatever...
as as much as they possible can!
ppl bitch on here every year around this time but I don't think new kite sales have gone down annually.
kite prices will come down when people stop buying them.
personally I have afew kites from 2015-2017 that I know I like and when I see a cheap one, I will buy it
from 2014 onwards there isn't a whole lot of improvement
I pay about $500 for second hand fuels, including a bar. Normally a 2 year old kite. I also don't upgrade often.
I'd love new kites, but cant justify the $$. Rather spend 9k on upgrading my car, or put it into the house.
I bet my bottom dollar half to three quarters of the larger big name kite companies are not efficiently run. Wasted money on R&D ($100,000's+)
Excess staff- hiring mates ($100,000),
Sponsoring riders ($100,000), (Offset by not paying riders)
Designing 10 different boards/graphics ($100,000's)
Wasted time and money on changes for the sake of changes for the sake of releasing a new kite year in year out. ($100,000)
The smaller operations would have tighter gross margins, as they probably don't have the economies of scale to have significant discounts come manufacturing time.
One things for sure, watch the retailers shut shop, or start pushing finance, probably do already. I wouldn't know, haven't purchased new kites before.
Throw in distributors with their sticky fingers in the pie and retailers facing increasing costs (rent, wages, overheads etc) and it's no wonder a $300 bar, bag and kite ends up costing us $3k.
Only loser is the final link in the chain -us!
To draw a comparison on another sport with a similar price....
Mountain biking...in 2002 I bought a aluminium mountain bike with an XT group set (near top of the wazza in those days) and paid about $2200 for the bike. 15 years later I bought a new mountain bike, fully specked carbon frame with again the XT group set. Paid the same price...
For this price and 15 years later, I got a bike that is significantly better in build, quality and components. Not to mention the air/oil front shocks and hydraulic brakes.
Now, admittedly you can spend significantly more than $2200 on a bike and get even higher specs with titanium bolts, higher grade carbon...etc. But the point is that the price had remained pretty much the same and the quality had excelled.
Economies of scale do kick in when it comes to sports like mountain biking, where they sell a ship load of bikes and hence reduce the cost factor. But surely kiting is coming into its own as well.
There is no way you can compare what you get in mountain bike compared to a kite for the same price. There are literally hundreds of parts on a bike and on a kite....some fabric and a bladder. Kites would have to cost a lot less than $300 each to produce for these guys to make the $$$$$$$.
This "high tech" material that they keep "coming out with" would be sold in rolls of hundreds of metres and materials costs would be minimal. The R&D for these types of materials does not come direct from kite research and development but through the contributions of many other "sail" based sports.
If you have the money to spend on $3000 (for just 1 kite) knock yourself out with the belief that you are getting a seriously better kite each season.
Inflation is a sales pitch.
In WA you get so much use out of your gear that it's nice to get new stuff occasionally, even if it's expensive.
Kind of like in Sydney, you guys will get much more use out of sequin jackets, pointy leather shoes, and pillows with mouthguards built in.
Hopefully prices double, or even better, triple.
That should sort out the crowds in Perth metro.
Select to expand quotecbulota said..
What if I told you that the top 3 kitesurfing brands combined produce and sell no more than 50 000 kites per year Worldwide. Then you have all these other well known brands that are lucky if they each sell 5000 kites or more Worldwide every year...and don't forget the smaller brands that sell a few hundreds to maybe a little over 1000 every year.
You have to put this in perspective, we're talking about an entire industry that surely produces less than 150 000 kites per year Worldwide.
SBC Kiteboard Study (leading kite surfing magazine): In 2006, over 210,00 kite surfers, over 114,500 kites sold that year.
Christian, delusional?? but at least I can read. Read the post,.. all I said was I would like to know the cost of the kite and kite alone, not travel cost etc as you put in you posts.
I understand the basics of businesses and that you have over heads etc, I just wanted to know the cost of a kite as I thought it would be interesting. Similar to the 3c cheeseburger scenario.
Select to expand quotewishy said..
In WA you get so much use out of your gear that it's nice to get new stuff occasionally, even if it's expensive.
Kind of like in Sydney, you guys will get much more use out of sequin jackets, pointy leather shoes, and pillows with mouthguards built in.
zing
Select to expand quoteshi thouse said..
To draw a comparison on another sport with a similar price....
Mountain biking...in 2002 I bought a aluminium mountain bike with an XT group set (near top of the wazza in those days) and paid about $2200 for the bike. 15 years later I bought a new mountain bike, fully specked carbon frame with again the XT group set. Paid the same price...
For this price and 15 years later, I got a bike that is significantly better in build, quality and components. Not to mention the air/oil front shocks and hydraulic brakes.
Now, admittedly you can spend significantly more than $2200 on a bike and get even higher specs with titanium bolts, higher grade carbon...etc. But the point is that the price had remained pretty much the same and the quality had excelled.
Economies of scale do kick in when it comes to sports like mountain biking, where they sell a ship load of bikes and hence reduce the cost factor. But surely kiting is coming into its own as well.
There is no way you can compare what you get in mountain bike compared to a kite for the same price. There are literally hundreds of parts on a bike and on a kite....some fabric and a bladder. Kites would have to cost a lot less than $300 each to produce for these guys to make the $$$$$$$.
This "high tech" material that they keep "coming out with" would be sold in rolls of hundreds of metres and materials costs would be minimal. The R&D for these types of materials does not come direct from kite research and development but through the contributions of many other "sail" based sports.
If you have the money to spend on $3000 (for just 1 kite) knock yourself out with the belief that you are getting a seriously better kite each season.
Inflation is a sales pitch.
Annual global bike sale to reach almost 60 BILLION dollars by 2021. Annual global kite sales (kites only) in that time will be approx 400 million. Economies of scale and much intense competition, means bike prices will stagnate and features and value will increase. many bike parts are made robotically and much of the manufacturing and assembly is too.
Kite manufacturing is extremely labour intensive, I've visited 2 of the biggest kite factories and each had over 1000 workers, no robotics, and were producing 15-30000 kites per year (they did make other water/kite related products).
Both factories the workers were paid above award wages and had good working conditions and benefits. The biggest cost is wages, then materials. They pay high wages to retain their skilled and trained workers, they cannot make high quality unless they keep their skilled workers happy and wanting to work at their factory.
Cheap bikes/cheap kites and all cheap consumer crap are made in less well run factories some of which are almost like prisons - I saw them too on the way to the kite factories and on other trips to China/asia.
Select to expand quotewishy said..
Kind of like in Sydney, you guys will get much more use out of sequin jackets, pointy leather shoes, and pillows with mouthguards built in.
Wish, no wonder you left Sydney mate. I think your Sydney mates were lying to you when they said "bite this, it's normal here"
Select to expand quote
How much for a happy ending..
Just got back from Bali- not much at all
At the end of the day its a pretty cheap sport for the amount of thrills you get. Take snowboarding for example, I was looking at $800 just to go for a weekend to Hotham, stuff that I'll buy a kite or a new board instead. Even a day trip will tip over $200. I remember when snowboards were $1000 and lift tickets were $50. For the amount of R&D that goes into kites these days, the quality I reckon we're pretty lucky. If you're tight with $ buy a cheaper brand or good S/H one.
The high cost of a free ride...Same discussion every year.Shop owner /distributor justify high r.r.price in Oz.and consumer can't agree. Above award factory wage what from $3 to $3.25 ...Research and development high cost..what for one geek behind a keyboard playing with an aerodynamic App. adjusting/designing different features . Then making a couple prototypes.Why doesn't one distributor lay it to rest and state actual costs from start to finished product purchase price. What peeves me is how all shop ownersover the years admit on this forum to buyer loyalty / discounts..Where a new customer pays $2200 for a new kite and free rashie subsidizes loyal mates rates customer price of say $1800. on the same day at shop.
Select to expand quotetowradgi said..
The high cost of a free ride...Same discussion every year.Shop owner /distributor justify high r.r.price in Oz.and consumer can't agree. Above award factory wage what from $3 to $3.25 ...Research and development high cost..what for one geek behind a keyboard playing with an aerodynamic App. adjusting/designing different features . Then making a couple prototypes.Why doesn't one distributor lay it to rest and state actual costs from start to finished product purchase price. What peeves me is how all shop ownersover the years admit on this forum to buyer loyalty / discounts..Where a new customer pays $2200 for a new kite and free rashie subsidizes loyal mates rates customer price of say $1800. on the same day at shop.
Funny isn't it..
I bumped into a newbie that walked into a shop, who got told this kite is what he needs... Over $2500 later he rock's up to learn to body drag! They gave him a free lesson that was as he put it, dangerous. All the locals at this particular spot kept buzzing him and wouldn't give the guy any space so he abandoned the idea of any more of there included lessons. Great job guy's. You know who you are.
I should name and shame...
Hint, he always posts how good naish and north are on here?
Any guesses?
I believe that kit must be high quality, simple, safe, effective and reasonably affordable. Distribution systems should be optimised with customer service and care still front and center. Instruction should be consistently delivered to newbies in ways that are steadily progressive, safe and cost effective. A business model specifically tailored to this industry is required to deliver these outcomes.
I cant afford new gear at retail prices. Infact I have never purchased a new kite at retail price.
Nor can I see myself buying one in the future new. I have far too many kids, sporting interests and not high enough income to even think of new.
I thank those schlubs that buy new then sell them a year or 2 later. i'll then pick up the kite between 1/3 and 1/2 new price.
My most used kite is a 2012 model. It just keeps on going and going and going. That's damn good value if you ask me.
