Select to expand quotepezzy said..
Internet shopping is the way of the future. I buy practical everything on the internet brand new, I don't care where it comes from if its a reasonable price (usually half price what a Brisbane shop will charge) I buy it. I cant think of a time I've been disappointed with my purchase. some examples are I asked a local bike shop to quote me for a new wheel set for my mountain bike nothing too fancy but still a nice pair. He said it would be $700. I bought a slightly better wheel set for $350, I picked the hubs (better), rims (same) and spokes (same) had them assembled and then shipped to Australia from England.
my snowboard, boots and bindings cost me $400ish off the internet, priced it up at one of the 2 shops in Brisbane that sell snow gear $1200. snow stuff is cheaper down where there is actually snow of course but its only cheaper by like $100.
Other things such as t-shirts brand name shizz Dc, volcom, whatever ect $10 as opposed to $30 - $50 in store. vans shoes $40 a pair all day long as opposed to paying $100 in shops.
As kitesurfing becomes more popular there will only be better deals appearing on the internet more frequently and in my case thats a good thing.
I know you cant demo kites before you buy them on the net but when kites start to become half price what they are in the shops who cares, do your research read reviews if you really don't like it you will probably be able to sell it used for what you paid for it.
obviously online shops wont fix kites but I fix my kite my self unless is really bad (in half) then you can always take it to a sail maker. Or just buy another because you only paid half the shop retail price anyway....
With attitudes like this you will be the death of bricks and mortar retail in Australia.
Can i put something to you?
If that wheel set or snowboard setup you bought online, crapped out for some reason, i bet you'd be the first to head to your local store to get after sales service and a warranty.
Very few people understand the structure of distributing gear in Australia. Regardless of the sport.
By shopping overseas online your only under cutting your store and making it harder for them to make a buck and in turn support the industry.
Select to expand quoteKitepower Australia said.. Kamikuza said..
Customer service - especially being nice to potential customers - can pretty much be done away with once you've got your hooks in.
Utter nonsense!
Where do you and Plummet get this drivel? Treat customers badly = business failure, and very quickly too, nothing is worse for business than an unhappy customer (who always tells lots of other people).
You can see from your posts that you don't care much about public perception -- I guess you assume this forum has limited reach... I think you'd be surprised.
There are always plenty of more suckers walking in the door; and lessons are where the money is, isn't it? It's a big planet, full of a lot of people -- especially when you've got your internet shop ticking along, supplying your local fan base... so a few pissed off would-be or ex-customers doesn't bother dealers too much.
Select to expand quoteLoftywinds said..
Kamikuza said..
It's not capitalism -- there are plenty of businesses, even in our limited arena of interest, that don't treat people like crap, even when they could get away with it. Basically, some people are just jerks.
If anything capitalism should weed out the knobs and leave the best service providers standing. I think what we have I our market is a kind of monopoly, with some capitalizing on that do just enjoy the ride and behave badly...
Yes. You mean shops that have the entire beach to themselves and no other competition? Well that's what I meant about capitalism. It's a free market and if there is only one player - too bad, too sad.
No, I meant the economic market place. The number of people needed to keep a store operating limits how many stores will actually make it in a given area... All of the stores I can think of here have been in the game since the beginning. They cover a pretty large area, although they do kind of have a "home" beach.
They seem to do business a bit different here anyway...
Select to expand quoteJOYRIDER said..
With attitudes like this you will be the death of bricks and mortar retail in Australia.
Can i put something to you?
If that wheel set or snowboard setup you bought online, crapped out for some reason, i bet you'd be the first to head to your local store to get after sales service and a warranty.
Very few people understand the structure of distributing gear in Australia. Regardless of the sport.
By shopping overseas online your only under cutting your store and making it harder for them to make a buck and in turn support the industry.
If they're dealers for the company, why wouldn't they support the product? It'd be like buying a Toyota in one town, and the dealer in the next town refusing to service it... after all, when they order parts where do you think they come from?!
Can you explain the structure of distributing gear in Australia, please?
Sooo..
We still have no answer on the topic of this thread of 'how much it costs to open a kite shop' but what we do know from reading this is that if you do open one there will be no shortage of people full of advice on how to run it! 
Select to expand quotemattkennedy said..
Sooo..
We still have no answer on the topic of this thread of 'how much it costs to open a kite shop' but what we do know from reading this is that if you do open one there will be no shortage of people full of advice on how to run it!
Haha, good one Mattkennedy!
Select to expand quotemattkennedy said..
Sooo..
We still have no answer on the topic of this thread of 'how much it costs to open a kite shop' but what we do know from reading this is that if you do open one there will be no shortage of people full of advice on how to run it!
Perhaps you should read the first page again...?
imo if your to open a kite shop these would be some importants attributes
good knowledge and skills of multiple codes of kiting
good knowledge of multiple brands for repairs and tuning
have a decent stock of 2 brands of kite minimum inc spares
have a decent stock of boards 2 brands minimum
have a good stock of affiliated items, harnesses, wetties ,rashies, fins, repair kits, etc etc
be prepared to be open when the winds blowing and put a repair before your own session
be prepared to deal with some difficult clients
be someones friend although you don't like them really
give out demos knowing theyre gonna get trashed
chase the demos you've loaned as they havnt returned them for weeks whilst getting trashed
repair those demos
be prepared to be f888cked around by couriers and distributors
listen to clients telling you how much money theyre making for doing f88k all on a mine site then trying to screw most of your profit from a purchase
listen to euros telling you how they pay less for their gear than you get it from your supplier
listen to the missus telling you what a knob you've been for spending all their savings on a kite shop
when are you opening
Open a kite shop? Might be a waste of time and money. When looking at some posts I feel kiting might be 99% talking/writing about it and only 1% actually being on the water. So better sell running shows or something...
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said...mattkennedy said..
Sooo..
We still have no answer on the topic of this thread of 'how much it costs to open a kite shop' but what we do know from reading this is that if you do open one there will be no shortage of people full of advice on how to run it!
Perhaps you should read the first page again...?
Thanks kamikaze just read the first page again. Was a great read, my favorite part was there was no posts from you on there
Select to expand quotemattkennedy said..Kamikuza said...mattkennedy said..
Sooo..
We still have no answer on the topic of this thread of 'how much it costs to open a kite shop' but what we do know from reading this is that if you do open one there will be no shortage of people full of advice on how to run it!
Perhaps you should read the first page again...?
Thanks kamikaze just read the first page again. Was a great read, my favorite part was there was no posts from you on there
LOL! True, and your observation is still correct, there is no definitive answer.
Select to expand quotemattkennedy said..
Thanks kamikaze just read the first page again. Was a great read, my favorite part was there was no posts from you on there
Be nice if you added something other than sarcasm, but if that's all you've got... we enjoy your wit. At least you spelled kamikaze correctly, even if that's not my name. Green thumb!
Does it matter how I spell your username when your just some troll hiding behind it?
Select to expand quotemattkennedy said..
Does it matter how I spell your username when your just some troll hiding behind it?
Now now. Lets not forget Kazan!
Select to expand quoteJOYRIDER said...
With attitudes like this you will be the death of bricks and mortar retail in Australia.
Can i put something to you?
If that wheel set or snowboard setup you bought online, crapped out for some reason, i bet you'd be the first to head to your local store to get after sales service and a warranty.
Very few people understand the structure of distributing gear in Australia. Regardless of the sport.
By shopping overseas online your only under cutting your store and making it harder for them to make a buck and in turn support the industry.
If you take care of your stuff and it wasnt faulty when you first recived it it shoudlnt break. If it does typicaly you wouldnt go through a shop just contact the company directly. If you do take the item to a local shop to be fixed they will probaly over charge you and you just as well buy another off the internet.
I'm not the bad guy here, The bad guys are the ones ripping their customers off. If you can buy something for half price elsewhere than your local shop then thats what you do.
If everyone swapped to internet shopping I'd love to see how quickly australian shop prices fall to actualy be somewhat realistic and competative with the rest of the world.
Select to expand quotepezzy said..JOYRIDER said...
With attitudes like this you will be the death of bricks and mortar retail in Australia.
Can i put something to you?
If that wheel set or snowboard setup you bought online, crapped out for some reason, i bet you'd be the first to head to your local store to get after sales service and a warranty.
Very few people understand the structure of distributing gear in Australia. Regardless of the sport.
By shopping overseas online your only under cutting your store and making it harder for them to make a buck and in turn support the industry.
If you take care of your stuff and it wasnt faulty when you first recived it it shoudlnt break. If it does typicaly you wouldnt go through a shop just contact the company directly. If you do take the item to a local shop to be fixed they will probaly over charge you and you just as well buy another off the internet.
I'm not the bad guy here, The bad guys are the ones ripping their customers off. If you can buy something for half price elsewhere than your local shop then thats what you do.
If everyone swapped to internet shopping I'd love to see how quickly australian shop prices fall to actualy be somewhat realistic and competative with the rest of the world.
Interesting supposition, then we would all gradually have to live under the lowest common denominator for conditions, wages, etc- this means that you your self would also suffer by your job now being only worth a ? of its current value or less, and probably your disposable income would do this also, maybe kites would be relatively more expensive.
Getting tired of the same bad guy shop ripping me off saga, the main issue is you are living in Australia, and this has assosiated costs for living on a sparsely populated continant with high expenses for everything- and low volume, luxury items like a kite fare worse than most. Any commodity that you can think of has these costs inherent to it- even what ever you do will fit in here, but I guess you'll get a warm fuzzy about teaching those scum kite shops not to rip you off anymore.
Maybe go live somewhere else and bitch to the locals about rip-off ozzies.
Select to expand quotepezzy said..
I'm not the bad guy here, The bad guys are the ones ripping their customers off. If you can buy something for half price elsewhere than your local shop then thats what you do.
Im intrigued. Where is it you can buy kites for which are half the price that the shops would sell them to you for in Australia? Please be specific not just say the internet.
Select to expand quotethe truth said..pezzy said..JOYRIDER said...
With attitudes like this you will be the death of bricks and mortar retail in Australia.
Can i put something to you?
If that wheel set or snowboard setup you bought online, crapped out for some reason, i bet you'd be the first to head to your local store to get after sales service and a warranty.
Very few people understand the structure of distributing gear in Australia. Regardless of the sport.
By shopping overseas online your only under cutting your store and making it harder for them to make a buck and in turn support the industry.
If you take care of your stuff and it wasnt faulty when you first recived it it shoudlnt break. If it does typicaly you wouldnt go through a shop just contact the company directly. If you do take the item to a local shop to be fixed they will probaly over charge you and you just as well buy another off the internet.
I'm not the bad guy here, The bad guys are the ones ripping their customers off. If you can buy something for half price elsewhere than your local shop then thats what you do.
If everyone swapped to internet shopping I'd love to see how quickly australian shop prices fall to actualy be somewhat realistic and competative with the rest of the world.
Interesting supposition, then we would all gradually have to live under the lowest common denominator for conditions, wages, etc- this means that you your self would also suffer by your job now being only worth a ? of its current value or less, and probably your disposable income would do this also, maybe kites would be relatively more expensive.
Getting tired of the same bad guy shop ripping me off saga, the main issue is you are living in Australia, and this has assosiated costs for living on a sparsely populated continant with high expenses for everything- and low volume, luxury items like a kite fare worse than most. Any commodity that you can think of has these costs inherent to it- even what ever you do will fit in here, but I guess you'll get a warm fuzzy about teaching those scum kite shops not to rip you off anymore.
Maybe go live somewhere else and bitch to the locals about rip-off ozzies.
second that
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..JOYRIDER said..
With attitudes like this you will be the death of bricks and mortar retail in Australia.
Can i put something to you?
If that wheel set or snowboard setup you bought online, crapped out for some reason, i bet you'd be the first to head to your local store to get after sales service and a warranty.
Very few people understand the structure of distributing gear in Australia. Regardless of the sport.
By shopping overseas online your only under cutting your store and making it harder for them to make a buck and in turn support the industry.
If they're dealers for the company, why wouldn't they support the product? It'd be like buying a Toyota in one town, and the dealer in the next town refusing to service it... after all, when they order parts where do you think they come from?!
Can you explain the structure of distributing gear in Australia, please?
Its not as simple as Joe from kite brand "X" waltzing down to the airport, grabbing a van full of kites and dropping them at the local shop.
From the top, there is a lot of money that goes into designing 1 size of 1 model of kite.
Everything from every plastic piece on the bar, to each panel on the kite. And don't forget the international team riders, R&D, advertising and keeping the development of the sport happening.
It all costs time and money. Once the product is refined its then made. and that's manufacturing price and it all starts.
The national distributor then has to buy the kite at his/her cost price. In order to work out the wholesale price, that the shop buys the product at, they need to cover freight into Australia + GST + import taxes +local marketing + business overheads + profit heaven forbid.
The state level shop then buys the kite at the wholesale price. And again has to make enough margin to keep the lights on in the shop, pay staff, buy stock at the start of the season. and if he is nice, which i guarantee all are (that's why their still open) they donate money or product to local events or riders. and yeah they also have to make some profit so they can eat and have a roof over their head at night.
This is all done on an international level in every country that people kitesurf.
The pricing also needs to be as even as possible across all regions to make sure it reflects the local income and economics and also doesn't under cut other regions.
So next time you think a kite should be $1000 brand new, current model, meaning with simple person logic, that a manufacturer needs to cover all costs for less then $100 a kite, have a think about your saying.
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..JOYRIDER said..
With attitudes like this you will be the death of bricks and mortar retail in Australia.
Can i put something to you?
If that wheel set or snowboard setup you bought online, crapped out for some reason, i bet you'd be the first to head to your local store to get after sales service and a warranty.
Very few people understand the structure of distributing gear in Australia. Regardless of the sport.
By shopping overseas online your only under cutting your store and making it harder for them to make a buck and in turn support the industry.
If they're dealers for the company, why wouldn't they support the product? It'd be like buying a Toyota in one town, and the dealer in the next town refusing to service it... after all, when they order parts where do you think they come from?!
Can you explain the structure of distributing gear in Australia, please?
Its not as simple as Joe from kite brand "X" waltzing down to the airport, grabbing a van full of kites and dropping them at the local shop.
From the top, there is a lot of money that goes into designing 1 size of 1 model of kite.
Everything from every plastic piece on the bar, to each panel on the kite. And don't forget the international team riders, R&D, advertising and keeping the development of the sport happening.
It all costs time and money. Once the product is refined its then made. and that's manufacturing price and it all starts.
The national distributor then has to buy the kite at his/her cost price. In order to work out the wholesale price, that the shop buys the product at, they need to cover freight into Australia + GST + import taxes +local marketing + business overheads + profit heaven forbid.
The state level shop then buys the kite at the wholesale price. And again has to make enough margin to keep the lights on in the shop, pay staff, buy stock at the start of the season. and if he is nice, which i guarantee all are (that's why their still open) they donate money or product to local events or riders. and yeah they also have to make some profit so they can eat and have a roof over their head at night.
This is all done on an international level in every country that people kitesurf.
The pricing also needs to be as even as possible across all regions to make sure it reflects the local income and economics and also doesn't under cut other regions.
So next time you think a kite should be $1000 brand new, current model, meaning with simple person logic, that a manufacturer needs to cover all costs for less then $100 a kite, have a think about your saying.
Yeah, that's what I thought -- pretty standard business model. Switch is changing that and look at the difference in prices -- what we, the end of the chain, are paying to keep those middle links active.... Makes you wonder eh.
They seem to do it a little different here, but it's essentially the same. Maybe the distributor gets dropped for some brands and the gear is ordered dieect from HQ... Price is the same though -- RRP less a discount for "club members" which is about 20% over $2000.
Select to expand quoteJOYRIDER said...Kamikuza said..JOYRIDER said..
With attitudes like this you will be the death of bricks and mortar retail in Australia.
Can i put something to you?
If that wheel set or snowboard setup you bought online, crapped out for some reason, i bet you'd be the first to head to your local store to get after sales service and a warranty.
Very few people understand the structure of distributing gear in Australia. Regardless of the sport.
By shopping overseas online your only under cutting your store and making it harder for them to make a buck and in turn support the industry.
If they're dealers for the company, why wouldn't they support the product? It'd be like buying a Toyota in one town, and the dealer in the next town refusing to service it... after all, when they order parts where do you think they come from?!
Can you explain the structure of distributing gear in Australia, please?
Its not as simple as Joe from kite brand "X" waltzing down to the airport, grabbing a van full of kites and dropping them at the local shop.
From the top, there is a lot of money that goes into designing 1 size of 1 model of kite.
Everything from every plastic piece on the bar, to each panel on the kite. And don't forget the international team riders, R&D, advertising and keeping the development of the sport happening.
It all costs time and money. Once the product is refined its then made. and that's manufacturing price and it all starts.
The national distributor then has to buy the kite at his/her cost price. In order to work out the wholesale price, that the shop buys the product at, they need to cover freight into Australia + GST + import taxes +local marketing + business overheads + profit heaven forbid.
The state level shop then buys the kite at the wholesale price. And again has to make enough margin to keep the lights on in the shop, pay staff, buy stock at the start of the season. and if he is nice, which i guarantee all are (that's why their still open) they donate money or product to local events or riders. and yeah they also have to make some profit so they can eat and have a roof over their head at night.
This is all done on an international level in every country that people kitesurf.
The pricing also needs to be as even as possible across all regions to make sure it reflects the local income and economics and also doesn't under cut other regions.
So next time you think a kite should be $1000 brand new, current model, meaning with simple person logic, that a manufacturer needs to cover all costs for less then $100 a kite, have a think about your saying.
Uk vat is 20% , hugely more competitive market, going through one of the worst downturns in decades fuel is around 30% more expensive for transport, then add your staff rent import duties , much shorter kiting seasons , I've a few mates that have kite shops in the uk one has recently closed after 14 yrs , it's not all roses overseas, have a think about what your saying
If you are going to open a shop, can it be in the Northern suburbs of Perth. We don't really have anything north of Scarborough and there are loads of kiters and potential kiters up here. I'd love a local shop less than 30mins away
How much does it cost? Hard work, intelligence, cash and thick skin.
It's great to see more youth getting into kiting and that is a direct result of being able to afford kit buying direct online. It's also great that more affluent kiters enjoy their relationship with their local shop.
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..
Yeah, that's what I thought -- pretty standard business model. Switch is changing that and look at the difference in prices -- what we, the end of the chain, are paying to keep those middle links active.... Makes you wonder eh.
They seem to do it a little different here, but it's essentially the same. Maybe the distributor gets dropped for some brands and the gear is ordered dieect from HQ... Price is the same though -- RRP less a discount for "club members" which is about 20% over $2000.
Switch do it yes and i honestly believe they wont last.
Going direct to customers is all well and good, from the customer end, but it means a lot of what the national distributor does and pays for now needs to be warn by the manufacturer.
It must work tho, i see tonnes of "direct to customer" kites on the water.
BTW: alot of major brands are implementing new business strategies and alot of it is to help the struggling retailer.
Select to expand quotecauncy said..JOYRIDER said...Kamikuza said..JOYRIDER said..
With attitudes like this you will be the death of bricks and mortar retail in Australia.
Can i put something to you?
If that wheel set or snowboard setup you bought online, crapped out for some reason, i bet you'd be the first to head to your local store to get after sales service and a warranty.
Very few people understand the structure of distributing gear in Australia. Regardless of the sport.
By shopping overseas online your only under cutting your store and making it harder for them to make a buck and in turn support the industry.
If they're dealers for the company, why wouldn't they support the product? It'd be like buying a Toyota in one town, and the dealer in the next town refusing to service it... after all, when they order parts where do you think they come from?!
Can you explain the structure of distributing gear in Australia, please?
Its not as simple as Joe from kite brand "X" waltzing down to the airport, grabbing a van full of kites and dropping them at the local shop.
From the top, there is a lot of money that goes into designing 1 size of 1 model of kite.
Everything from every plastic piece on the bar, to each panel on the kite. And don't forget the international team riders, R&D, advertising and keeping the development of the sport happening.
It all costs time and money. Once the product is refined its then made. and that's manufacturing price and it all starts.
The national distributor then has to buy the kite at his/her cost price. In order to work out the wholesale price, that the shop buys the product at, they need to cover freight into Australia + GST + import taxes +local marketing + business overheads + profit heaven forbid.
The state level shop then buys the kite at the wholesale price. And again has to make enough margin to keep the lights on in the shop, pay staff, buy stock at the start of the season. and if he is nice, which i guarantee all are (that's why their still open) they donate money or product to local events or riders. and yeah they also have to make some profit so they can eat and have a roof over their head at night.
This is all done on an international level in every country that people kitesurf.
The pricing also needs to be as even as possible across all regions to make sure it reflects the local income and economics and also doesn't under cut other regions.
So next time you think a kite should be $1000 brand new, current model, meaning with simple person logic, that a manufacturer needs to cover all costs for less then $100 a kite, have a think about your saying.
Uk vat is 20% , hugely more competitive market, going through one of the worst downturns in decades fuel is around 30% more expensive for transport, then add your staff rent import duties , much shorter kiting seasons , I've a few mates that have kite shops in the uk one has recently closed after 14 yrs , it's not all roses overseas, have a think about what your saying
There you go.
But tell your friend not to worry Kamikuza and his mates are buying their closing down sale gear, at a crazy cheap price and all while supporting the industry. And they wonder why the local shop doesn't want to talk to them.
I love how this place can go from discussing the facts to "personal attacks" for absolutely no good reason at all. 
Switch has been around what, 2 years now? Might be a bit early to call it, either way.
If local shops aren't ripping you off AND are actually providing support eg. NOT "oh that's not a warranty, that's misuse", it might be a different story. And let's not forget that sometimes, you just can't get want you want in-country: no Peter Lynn, no Axis, there was no Ozone for a while (I waited 9 months for a SB harness before giving up), no repair for foils at a sensible price etc etc.
I wouldn't take my crappy car to a mechanic with no parts or knowledge about the brand... And I'd go out of town for proper support -- so why do we cling to these out-moded ways of doing business?
Good to hear it's being shaken up...
Select to expand quotethe truth said..pezzy said..
I'm not the bad guy here, The bad guys are the ones ripping their customers off. If you can buy something for half price elsewhere than your local shop then thats what you do.
Maybe go live somewhere else and bitch to the locals about rip-off ozzies.
We don't have to.
Lets take ads in here. Hmmm lets see... Oooh looky! InTheLoop, SHQ, etc for instance.... advertising their wares for $0
$0 advertising for kites obviously worth $2000+ !!!
Give me a break!
If we want value for money in Australia and our money to stay in Australia, then lets stop Aussies ripping Aussies off first.
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..
I love how this place can go from discussing the facts to "personal attacks" for absolutely no good reason at all.
Switch has been around what, 2 years now? Might be a bit early to call it, either way.
I'm intrigued to see how switch go when their volume of sales worldwide reach a certain threshold, without on the ground support mechanisms in place.
Product is decent though, no questioning that, but will their distribution and support model hold up.
Interesting space to watch. 3 Years I think isn't it overall, given they have the V3?
Select to expand quotecauncy said..
imo if your to open a kite shop these would be some importants attributes
good knowledge and skills of multiple codes of kiting
good knowledge of multiple brands for repairs and tuning
have a decent stock of 2 brands of kite minimum inc spares
have a decent stock of boards 2 brands minimum
have a good stock of affiliated items, harnesses, wetties ,rashies, fins, repair kits, etc etc
be prepared to be open when the winds blowing and put a repair before your own session
be prepared to deal with some difficult clients
be someones friend although you don't like them really
give out demos knowing theyre gonna get trashed
chase the demos you've loaned as they havnt returned them for weeks whilst getting trashed
repair those demos
be prepared to be f888cked around by couriers and distributors
listen to clients telling you how much money theyre making for doing f88k all on a mine site then trying to screw most of your profit from a purchase
listen to euros telling you how they pay less for their gear than you get it from your supplier
listen to the missus telling you what a knob you've been for spending all their savings on a kite shop
when are you opening
Or the big question is to a few kiteshops already open..
WHEN ARE YOU CLOSING!
Select to expand quoteiandvnt said..
How much does it cost? Hard work, intelligence, cash and thick skin.
It's great to see more youth getting into kiting and that is a direct result of being able to afford kit buying direct online. It's also great that more affluent kiters enjoy their relationship with their local shop.
No thats not how the kids get into it, they do not buy online predominantly, they buy from their local market, mostly hand me downs from my observations and experience travelling around Oz and beyond. Young people don't have the credit cards and disposable income, or the patience to buy online and wait for delivery.
The people buying online are an older age group, generally more established and experienced in life, plenty of room on the credit card and happy to use the old kite waiting for the new on to arrive.
