Select to expand quotePlummet said..Drury said..
I'm going off most everything else I've read from you.
I've tried to explain on several occasions the methodology that could used to make a kiteshop more successful. For the most part my statements are misunderstood.
What do you do for a living? Do you have actual experience in starting a streetfront retail (or any) business from scratch, and making it more and more successful?
If you think you are misunderstood, read back through your posts, especially those directed at my business, to understand why. 
The Finnancial cost of opening a shop is nothing compared to the cost to your mental health
Kitesurf 1770 is up for sale. Have a yarn to the boys there, Or is that what your thinking of buying?
Select to expand quoteRob S said...craggers said..
$50k wont even get you in the door on a lease on a place. 'Greedy landlords' are only the next step in the chain of people trying to get ahead in the economic environment they exist in. They are beholden to the greedy banks, who are obliged to their greedy shareholders... who is you if you take 15 mins to jump online and buy some shares.
" greedy shareholders! " I 'resemble' that remark! G'day Craig ;-)
Rob. Iv got an opportunity for you. Frontline shareholder in a kiting entrepreneurial venture....
Sub $50k too...
Select to expand quotecraggers said..Rob S said...craggers said..
$50k wont even get you in the door on a lease on a place. 'Greedy landlords' are only the next step in the chain of people trying to get ahead in the economic environment they exist in. They are beholden to the greedy banks, who are obliged to their greedy shareholders... who is you if you take 15 mins to jump online and buy some shares.
" greedy shareholders! " I 'resemble' that remark! G'day Craig ;-)
Rob. Iv got an opportunity for you. Frontline shareholder in a kiting entrepreneurial venture....
Sub $50k too...
Too late mate. Spent all my ready cash on a new catamaran.
Select to expand quoteKitepower Australia said..
You could probably put in any amount between 10 grand and a million, but the better question would be what does it take to not only start one but make it a success.
Something like 80% of new small businesses fail within the first 2 years, and within 5 years that jumps to over 90%, thats a very sobering statistic.
I started KP 21 years ago with around 8K, critical factors in my success, were my age, timing, passion, my partner, her passion and committment to support me, our kids, the relationships I built with people like Rob from Ground Zero kites, Bob Dawson (deceased) and Mike Richards (Kite Site/Kite Magic) Chris Robson of Windspeed Kites, Neil Taylor of HTL, Phil and Annie McConachie in the pre kitesurf days - they gave me, support, credit and extended terms, and in Bob Dawson's case, so much more, that it would be hard to describe here. Once kitesurfing started, we had already built up a substantial kitty of stock and experience, but had to reinvest every spare cent we earned from the business. One supplier really helped, Greg Johns from Windgenuity, and then later Best, then Adrian Roper and Undergound and after that Neil Pryde (Cabrinha). All these relationships and suppliers trust in us were crucial, and we have extended that trust and help as much as possible to our team and employees. Some relationships have endured, others have not for various reasons, but all are still remembered with gratitude. Family is still a huge part of our ongoing ability to keep growing, as is the awesome team that we have a symbiotic relationship with! 
Have a go, but make sure you have a ton of passion and when the going gets tough, tighten your belt, live on next to nothing and keep smiling and serving!
Good success story Steve. Most successful businesses are built with passion. Obviously you had tons.
What did you sell before kitesurfing kites? Normal kites?
Internet shopping is the way of the future. I buy practical everything on the internet brand new, I don't care where it comes from if its a reasonable price (usually half price what a Brisbane shop will charge) I buy it. I cant think of a time I've been disappointed with my purchase. some examples are I asked a local bike shop to quote me for a new wheel set for my mountain bike nothing too fancy but still a nice pair. He said it would be $700. I bought a slightly better wheel set for $350, I picked the hubs (better), rims (same) and spokes (same) had them assembled and then shipped to Australia from England.
my snowboard, boots and bindings cost me $400ish off the internet, priced it up at one of the 2 shops in Brisbane that sell snow gear $1200. snow stuff is cheaper down where there is actually snow of course but its only cheaper by like $100.
Other things such as t-shirts brand name shizz Dc, volcom, whatever ect $10 as opposed to $30 - $50 in store. vans shoes $40 a pair all day long as opposed to paying $100 in shops.
As kitesurfing becomes more popular there will only be better deals appearing on the internet more frequently and in my case thats a good thing.
I know you cant demo kites before you buy them on the net but when kites start to become half price what they are in the shops who cares, do your research read reviews if you really don't like it you will probably be able to sell it used for what you paid for it.
obviously online shops wont fix kites but I fix my kite my self unless is really bad (in half) then you can always take it to a sail maker. Or just buy another because you only paid half the shop retail price anyway....
When I start up my own kiteshop,
I'm going to call it Wet Patch.
What do you think ?
Select to expand quotepezzy said...
Internet shopping is the way of the future. I buy practical everything on the internet brand new, I don't care where it comes from if its a reasonable price (usually half price what a Brisbane shop will charge) I buy it. I cant think of a time I've been disappointed with my purchase. some examples are I asked a local bike shop to quote me for a new wheel set for my mountain bike nothing too fancy but still a nice pair. He said it would be $700. I bought a slightly better wheel set for $350, I picked the hubs (better), rims (same) and spokes (same) had them assembled and then shipped to Australia from England.
my snowboard, boots and bindings cost me $400ish off the internet, priced it up at one of the 2 shops in Brisbane that sell snow gear $1200. snow stuff is cheaper down where there is actually snow of course but its only cheaper by like $100.
Other things such as t-shirts brand name shizz Dc, volcom, whatever ect $10 as opposed to $30 - $50 in store. vans shoes $40 a pair all day long as opposed to paying $100 in shops.
As kitesurfing becomes more popular there will only be better deals appearing on the internet more frequently and in my case thats a good thing.
I know you cant demo kites before you buy them on the net but when kites start to become half price what they are in the shops who cares, do your research read reviews if you really don't like it you will probably be able to sell it used for what you paid for it.
obviously online shops wont fix kites but I fix my kite my self unless is really bad (in half) then you can always take it to a sail maker. Or just buy another because you only paid half the shop retail price anyway....
Pezzy, pezzy, pezzy... that sort of talk is called trolling on sb. And at 17 posts im sure some quality banter is about to follow..!!
Select to expand quotecraggers said..pezzy said...
Internet shopping is the way of the future. I buy practical everything on the internet brand new, I don't care where it comes from if its a reasonable price (usually half price what a Brisbane shop will charge) I buy it. I cant think of a time I've been disappointed with my purchase. some examples are I asked a local bike shop to quote me for a new wheel set for my mountain bike nothing too fancy but still a nice pair. He said it would be $700. I bought a slightly better wheel set for $350, I picked the hubs (better), rims (same) and spokes (same) had them assembled and then shipped to Australia from England.
my snowboard, boots and bindings cost me $400ish off the internet, priced it up at one of the 2 shops in Brisbane that sell snow gear $1200. snow stuff is cheaper down where there is actually snow of course but its only cheaper by like $100.
Other things such as t-shirts brand name shizz Dc, volcom, whatever ect $10 as opposed to $30 - $50 in store. vans shoes $40 a pair all day long as opposed to paying $100 in shops.
As kitesurfing becomes more popular there will only be better deals appearing on the internet more frequently and in my case thats a good thing.
I know you cant demo kites before you buy them on the net but when kites start to become half price what they are in the shops who cares, do your research read reviews if you really don't like it you will probably be able to sell it used for what you paid for it.
obviously online shops wont fix kites but I fix my kite my self unless is really bad (in half) then you can always take it to a sail maker. Or just buy another because you only paid half the shop retail price anyway....
Pezzy, pezzy, pezzy... that sort of talk is called trolling on sb. And at 17 posts im sure some quality banter is about to follow..!!
Its not trolling its reality. This is what a lot of individuals do. You have to consider it before going into business these days.
I think the more experienced you are at an activity, the less need you have from a local shop. In some instances you can exceed the level of knowledge and expertise of the people in the shop. You know exactly what you want, so you have little need for their technical expertise. At that point it comes down to price point over loyalty to buy from the shop.
However as far as kiting is concerned I'm finding these days I am very particular about what I want out of my kite. A few years back it didn't bother me too much. So buying a site unseen without a demo in the earlier days wasn't a problem. Now after a buying a few kites that didn't suit my needs a demo has become a lot more important than it was in years gone by.
Until they put an across the board 10% import duty on everything coming into Aus I reckon its unfair to be banging on about how cheap overseas stuff is. Add into that that everyone from a sales assistant to the janitor expects to be on 100K a year in Australia but still expects for everything to be as cheap as it is overseas. When you're ready to be on the same average wage as the place you are buying your gear from, then start telling Aus businesses how low they should be setting their price. The majority of the Australian economy is serviced based, we don't make anything; we don't own anything; and our government won't tax the rich who send all our money offshore as well. We are one massive leaking siev of money and before long you're children will be asking you, wtf were you thinking?
Against the grain and popular belief machine - someone opened a hardware store DownTown and did remarkably well ... Challenge the box :)
Exposure to thousands of people each day versus a few wanderers each day.
I used to subcontract to a place that brought thousands of people to my doorstep,
A numbers game regardless of how passionate and genuinely sincere you are ;)
Just do it!!! you will make a mint
While your at it why not start a dodgy kite school, if you are in Perth area you can teach at woodies or point walter or anywhere else you don't need a license 
Select to expand quotePlummet said..
Its not trolling its reality. This is what a lot of individuals do. You have to consider it before going into business these days.
Thats not quite correct. For some people it is reality, for the majority it is not, do some research, traditional retail is massively bigger than online. For many businesses a website is a must if they want to maximise sales, but many retailers in certain market sectors do fine without websites.
For a new kite retail store, it all depends on their location and local market, most will build a website, many will struggle to maintain a website, and service their local customers.
It is not all text book black and white like you say so often. Once again though, in order to boost your sagging credibility, where is an example of your streetfront retail business that has become more and more successful?Select to expand quotePlummet said..
I think the more experienced you are at an activity, the less need you have from a local shop.
I'm guessing you are 100% certain of that too?Select to expand quotePlummet said..
In some instances you can exceed the level of knowledge and expertise of the people in the shop. You know exactly what you want, so you have little need for their technical expertise. At that point it comes down to price point over loyalty to buy from the shop.
A person may be able to "exceed" the knowledge and expertise of a retail store, but one cannot "exceed" from the need to live in one's society and pay a fair share of the costs of a civilised life. The factors that influence a buying decision are a lot more complex than simply price and loyalty! What about convenience, impulse, service reputation, salesperson skills, etc, etc. Some websites are simply price based, others are not, again its not all text book black and white. If it were that simple and easy then everyone would be doing it, the reality is that creating a successful retail business, requires a multitude of decisions, skills and good timing, etc, etc.Select to expand quotePlummet said..
However as far as kiting is concerned I'm finding these days I am very particular about what I want out of my kite. A few years back it didn't bother me too much. So buying a site unseen without a demo in the earlier days wasn't a problem. Now after a buying a few kites that didn't suit my needs a demo has become a lot more important than it was in years gone by.
Great, you would love our store, we have almost everything we sell on demo. That is a cost that is borne by our business and a feature that no online price point website will ever match. Good retail will never disappear, poorly run ones always do.
Select to expand quoteKitepower Australia said..
Great, you would love our store, we have almost everything we sell on demo.
I would love to have a store near me with everything to demo. Sadly I don't know of any such store in nz. I guess that's the down side of such a small market.
Boy, this thread has taken off!!
So it seems you need 95% perspiration and 5% inspiration, eh?
My wife and I run a business from home, and it is a struggle to even pay for fuel, even though we own 5 properties, no shares but have only one income at this stage - mine as I work a "normal" 9 - 5 job. We are very lucky.
My wife's spent (not wasted!) over $40k on starting her business with mediocre success. But it's only been less than 2 years. And we're still at it and working every day of every minute. It's truly a labor of love or love-hate relationship if you know what I mean. We BELIEVE it will work in the long run as we're into a niche market. But gee man... we really have to fork out the time just to get some of that 5% above!
So I understand what it's like to start a business. And it seems with Kite Surfing, it's a passion and I am sure lots of kiters would love to run their own show one day and do nothing but kite all day, but the reality is far from it.
It reminds me of a close friend of mine that runs one of the surf camps at Samoa. Him and a friend have been running that show for over 10 years I think, and one of the "secrets" Paul told me about it was, "...mate if you want to live the dream, it's possible and very doable, but don't expect to be surfing waves out the front every day", he explained. "I would probably have a session about once a month if I am lucky! That's how busy I am", he said.
But thanks for sharing your story KP (Steve?). Very inspirational.
Select to expand quotePlummet said.. In some instances you can exceed the level of knowledge and expertise of the people in the shop. You know exactly what you want, so you have little need for their technical expertise. At that point it comes down to price point over loyalty to buy from the shop.
I would I say my knowledge and expertise of what I do kiting far exceeds that of almost anyone working in kite-shops around the world, but in all honesty I think the support I get from my kite store is needed as much now (if not more) than it was ever before. In my opinion my shop really doesn't even get out as much as what they have invested into me... I couldn't be more thankful for the support of a real kite shop, with real people I can talk to and get help with different situations. If you'e wondering my kite shop is Kitepower Sydney.
p.s. (I know there are others, like Padi at Surf Connect Brisbane who really do a lot to help out people as well).
Select to expand quotePlummet said..Kitepower Australia said..
Great, you would love our store, we have almost everything we sell on demo.
I would love to have a store near me with everything to demo. Sadly I don't know of any such store in nz. I guess that's the down side of such a small market.
I'm sorry to hear that, however, you have targeted my business, and you have given a lot of advice that really needs to be backed up now. What is the business that you have created and made more and more successful?
Having gear to demo, is actually a very small part of the overall success recipe, but it it very much appreciated by our local customers in Sydney and Brisbane.
I am genuinely very curious to hear about your business background and although I'm not 100% sure I reckon a lot of people reading this thread would like to know too.
Select to expand quotenugs said..Kitepower Australia said..
You could probably put in any amount between 10 grand and a million, but the better question would be what does it take to not only start one but make it a success.
Something like 80% of new small businesses fail within the first 2 years, and within 5 years that jumps to over 90%, thats a very sobering statistic.
I started KP 21 years ago with around 8K, critical factors in my success, were my age, timing, passion, my partner, her passion and committment to support me, our kids, the relationships I built with people like Rob from Ground Zero kites, Bob Dawson (deceased) and Mike Richards (Kite Site/Kite Magic) Chris Robson of Windspeed Kites, Neil Taylor of HTL, Phil and Annie McConachie in the pre kitesurf days - they gave me, support, credit and extended terms, and in Bob Dawson's case, so much more, that it would be hard to describe here. Once kitesurfing started, we had already built up a substantial kitty of stock and experience, but had to reinvest every spare cent we earned from the business. One supplier really helped, Greg Johns from Windgenuity, and then later Best, then Adrian Roper and Undergound and after that Neil Pryde (Cabrinha). All these relationships and suppliers trust in us were crucial, and we have extended that trust and help as much as possible to our team and employees. Some relationships have endured, others have not for various reasons, but all are still remembered with gratitude. Family is still a huge part of our ongoing ability to keep growing, as is the awesome team that we have a symbiotic relationship with!
Have a go, but make sure you have a ton of passion and when the going gets tough, tighten your belt, live on next to nothing and keep smiling and serving!
Good success story Steve. Most successful businesses are built with passion. Obviously you had tons.
What did you sell before kitesurfing kites? Normal kites?
Electrician originally, motorcycle accident stuffed that career. Tried so many things, from a self employed courier, health food store owner, sold office equipment cold calling, then mobile phones, then insurance and super, then set up and ran healh food stores for an investor, repped for a health food distributor, worked in a variety of retail stores, mostly electrical, started a health food restaurant and went bust, actually went bust in the insurance and super industry too, so that was twice! created a mobile tool repair business, reconditioning power tools, buying and selling high quality used hand and power tools, then I bought a kite and the rest is history.
But yes, originally we just sold 2 line sport kites, then foil power kites and got totally addicted.....
Select to expand quoteRob S said..craggers said..Rob S said...craggers said..
$50k wont even get you in the door on a lease on a place. 'Greedy landlords' are only the next step in the chain of people trying to get ahead in the economic environment they exist in. They are beholden to the greedy banks, who are obliged to their greedy shareholders... who is you if you take 15 mins to jump online and buy some shares.
" greedy shareholders! " I 'resemble' that remark! G'day Craig ;-)
Rob. Iv got an opportunity for you. Frontline shareholder in a kiting entrepreneurial venture....
Sub $50k too...
Too late mate. Spent all my ready cash on a new catamaran.
sorry robSelect to expand quoteKitepower Australia said..Plummet said..Kitepower Australia said..
Great, you would love our store, we have almost everything we sell on demo.
I would love to have a store near me with everything to demo. Sadly I don't know of any such store in nz. I guess that's the down side of such a small market.
I'm sorry to hear that, however, you have targeted my business, and you have given a lot of advice that really needs to be backed up now. What is the business that you have created and made more and more successful?
Having gear to demo, is actually a very small part of the overall success recipe, but it it very much appreciated by our local customers in Sydney and Brisbane.
I am genuinely very curious to hear about your business background and although I'm not 100% sure I reckon a lot of people reading this thread would like to know too.
sells the best weed in new Zealand, tried and tested on sheep, off their CHOPS
Select to expand quoteDl33ta said..
Until they put an across the board 10% import duty on everything coming into Aus I reckon its unfair to be banging on about how cheap overseas stuff is. Add into that that everyone from a sales assistant to the janitor expects to be on 100K a year in Australia but still expects for everything to be as cheap as it is overseas. When you're ready to be on the same average wage as the place you are buying your gear from, then start telling Aus businesses how low they should be setting their price. The majority of the Australian economy is serviced based, we don't make anything; we don't own anything; and our government won't tax the rich who send all our money offshore as well. We are one massive leaking siev of money and before long you're children will be asking you, wtf were you thinking?
putting 10% wont do too much due to the costs of os shops, maybe put 50% on then you might take the temptation away, a friend of mine has a kite and watersports shop in the uk, best cabo 2013 at 350 gbp and f bomb 2014 wetsuits at 200 gbp these are just 2 examples on price differences, so if your shop over here goes internet based and cuts out the staff in shop will we see prices like this, dream on, if you check most os websites they offer a worldwide service, so why is it we don't do the same?
Select to expand quotecauncy said..
putting 10% wont do too much due to the costs of os shops, maybe put 50% on then you might take the temptation away, a friend of mine has a kite and watersports shop in the uk, best cabo 2013 at 350 gbp and f bomb 2014 wetsuits at 200 gbp these are just 2 examples on price differences, so if your shop over here goes internet based and cuts out the staff in shop will we see prices like this, dream on, if you check most os websites they offer a worldwide service, so why is it we don't do the same?
There already is a 10% import duty if your bringing more than $1000 worth of goods through customs. I think that's per month too so it wouldn't matter if you say bought two kites off a shop in america for $1800 and sent them in two packages making them worth $900 each you would still pay the 10%. At least that's what I read off the government website 5 or so years ago when buying lots of bike parts. However I have never had $1000 worth of stuff through customs within the month so I couldn't say for sure.
I definitely wouldn't want to see a 50% import duty imposed. I agree with you Cauncy its about time Australia got with the times and started being competitive in a world wide market.
Take companies like block buster for example, refused to change their businesses model and now are almost extinct because the internet is 2 clicks away as opposed to a 15 minute drive and instead of renting a movie for a week for the same price you can buy it over the internet.
also, all of what I am saying isn't directly targeted at kitepower, I have been in your shop a few times and noticed you had some pretty reasonably priced stuff.
Seems to be a lot of kite businesses are simply the first to open in an area and survive because they cornered the market - making business skills or education irrelevant so long as you can balance a budget. Successful kite businesses diversify and... trade online. Customer service - especially being nice to potential customers - can pretty much be done away with once you've got your hooks in.
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..
Seems to be a lot of kite businesses are simply the first to open in an area and survive because they cornered the market - making business skills or education irrelevant so long as you can balance a budget. Successful kite businesses diversify and... trade online. Customer service - especially being nice to potential customers - can pretty much be done away with once you've got your hooks in.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. Capitalism just does not care about "customer service". It's a dog-eat-dog world out there and becoming more so, with the looming budget we have to have.
It's not capitalism -- there are plenty of businesses, even in our limited arena of interest, that don't treat people like crap, even when they could get away with it. Basically, some people are just jerks.
If anything capitalism should weed out the knobs and leave the best service providers standing. I think what we have I our market is a kind of monopoly, with some capitalizing on that do just enjoy the ride and behave badly...
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..
Customer service - especially being nice to potential customers - can pretty much be done away with once you've got your hooks in.
Utter nonsense!
Where do you and Plummet get this drivel? Treat customers badly = business failure, and very quickly too, nothing is worse for business than an unhappy customer (who always tells lots of other people).
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..
It's not capitalism -- there are plenty of businesses, even in our limited arena of interest, that don't treat people like crap, even when they could get away with it. Basically, some people are just jerks.
If anything capitalism should weed out the knobs and leave the best service providers standing. I think what we have I our market is a kind of monopoly, with some capitalizing on that do just enjoy the ride and behave badly...
Yes. You mean shops that have the entire beach to themselves and no other competition? Well that's what I meant about capitalism. It's a free market and if there is only one player - too bad, too sad.
With so many business experts here with spare capital, can you guys get together and put a proper 4/5 point cable park in Victoria?
I just booked a holiday to thailand because it's cheaper than going to Penrith or Queensland.
Airlines make retail seem easy :p
