Been playing around with my board without the handle, and it has noticeably more flex, which makes sense as the handle is like a strut in the middle.
My thinking is that more flex is good for popping etc. does it actually have any effect in real life?
a little bit at the tips is ok, but flex between the feet is no good- the board absorbs your edging energy and kind of 'walks' when you load and pop. it must be a flimsy construction if the handle makes a noticeable difference
Select to expand quotestamp said..
a little bit at the tips is ok, but flex between the feet is no good- the board absorbs your edging energy and kind of 'walks' when you load and pop. it must be a flimsy construction if the handle makes a noticeable difference
Define 'walks'? I am interested to learn how elastic board does not act like a spring in the water. Or snow by that matter as a snowboard.
Energy absorption is true tho. In a real life flexy (elastic with good springback) board will slingshot you in the air. Think a pen spring. Or do this: put a board on a ground, flex it with your legs and try to jump on one side (take a fins off).
Now do the same with a rigid board.
Even metal can flex. But it has no elasticity like a bamboo for example.
I thought a stiffer board (like a wakeboard) is better for popping. Will probably use a little more energy and power to 'charge' it up but will result in a better pop than a flexy floppy board.
Someones right there - too much flex = less pop ability.
And Im no technical guru but pretty confident saying that if your handle reduces any flex right in the centre point thats a good thing.
Most of the really super to ride boards are designed around the flex being minimal to zero through the centre. Flex - under normal loading - should start someway out of centre, increasing towards the tips.
Stand to be corrected by shapers & designers.
Any tips on adding a handle, lack off handle gives me ships(sure its been done before but cant be assed looking).
Select to expand quotethe gibbo said...
Any tips on adding a handle, lack off handle gives me ships(sure its been done before but cant be assed looking).
Why would you want a handle on your board? Have you ever seen a snowboard, wakeboard, surfboard, skateboard or any board other than a sup with a handle on it? All you are going to do is make a weak point in your board, for no gain
For superman board offs Ewan for us with legs and ankles that can't take the beating you give yours....lol
Handles are useless (unless you do boardoffs, even then you should grab rail) and also look ridiculous... People who carry their board by the handle to me look like businessmen of the sea haha.
Flex in the centre of a board is terrible for good pop. The board will negatively flex on takeoff and kill all the energy you have stored in the lines by loading up against the kite.
I'm an old bugger and even though I'm no where near having any sort of style in my riding I have to agree that having a handle on your board looks very strange indeed.
I agree with the following already-made points:
If the handle makes a difference then either your board is the soggiest thing ever or you have a mega-titanium handle.
Handles suck, and handle inserts without handle still suck - increased weight and cost. Reduced strength, compromised flex profile.
IMHO most boards are too soft in general and way too soft in the tips. But hey, if you're happy to sacrifice precision, feel and energy, go for it. It's like driving around with under-inflated tyres.
I wasnt asking for your opinions of having handles or not but thanks anyway for the positive input. I was asking how/if it can be retrofitted and i hijacked this post so will search the forums history to avoid more negativity, have a great day everyone.
Select to expand quotethe gibbo said..
I wasnt asking for your opinions of having handles or not but thanks anyway for the positive input. I was asking how/if it can be retrofitted and i hijacked this post so will search the forums history to avoid more negativity, have a great day everyone.
I wasn't initially responding to your request. Giving my opinion and reasons for it may be regarded as constructive in some quarters.
But since you seem to really want to know:
Get some stainless inserts.
Roughen the inserts with emery cloth.
Plug them with wax to stop resin getting in the threads.
Clean wax off around hole, thoroughly.
Use white spirits/acetone to clean insert.
Rout holes of appropriate depth and diameter.
Sand deck 2" around holes.
Chop up some glass cloth into short (15mm) lengths.
Cut three or for staggered size patches to match the sanded area of deck.
Mix epoxy thoroughly.
Put a couple tablespoons of resin in a separate container and work enough small chopped glass in so it's a bit thick.
Put some of this mix in each hole and work it around to saturate the whole surface area.
Push inserts in so that resin/glass mix pushes up and around them.
Remove excess.
Lay and wet out largest patches, then smaller.
To minimise sanding use a precut bit of plastic bag to lay over each section of glass.
Pad it down - not too firmly.
Let resin cure.
Remove plastic.
Lightly sand/feather any bumps.
Carefully drill out, countersink and sand smooth the glass over hole in each insert.
Remove wax with a bit of wire or something - do not heat!
Screw handle in.
Select to expand quotepuppetonastring said..
Someones right there - too much flex = less pop ability. And Im no technical guru but pretty confident saying that if your handle reduces any flex right in the centre point thats a good thing. Most of the really super to ride boards are designed around the flex being minimal to zero through the centre. Flex - under normal loading - should start someway out of centre, increasing towards the tips. Stand to be corrected by shapers & designers.
Ok,
here: "When you're hitting the rails, you don't want the stiffness of the traditional wakeboards. You want them to adapt to the impact and, therefore, to be more flexible."
This is from the biggest manufacturer. Let me ask a question: do we all land jumps or tricks? If yes, where is the impact energy going to?
The super duper riding boards are like the Formula One. You still need to be a F1 driver to benefit and control all this performance.
Toby is riding 128cm board with an Airstyle handle. He's ~90kg. His board is perfect for what he does. All bashers of the handle never ever did any handle board offs...Not to mention a jump rotation with a board off.
So, yeah, definitely depends on your riding style. Flex or not, that is a question?! Im all for flex.
Select to expand quotesir ROWDY said..
Handles are useless (unless you do boardoffs, even then you should grab rail) and also look ridiculous... People who carry their board by the handle to me look like businessmen of the sea haha.
Ha haha so true. Business men trying to get out a big nugget (when putting the board back on).
I knew I was meant for the corporate world...
Depends on style, rail/ flex all become very important when wakestyling so lose the handle for sure.
Yes the right amount of flex... which when hitting rails is super minimal in a wakeboard.
Toby also rides a 19m kite in 10m kite weather... so if you want to go copy him I'm sure a flexy 128cm board with a big goofy handle will suit you well. Good guys do their board-offs without the handle. Ian Graham and Dan Anderson both Aussies are still the 2 best guys I've seen at them neither of them needed a handle.
Tom Hebert is my bench mark, not Toby...he has way more hair.
Rowdy does rail profile work with the flex distribution in the board and vica versa??
Just read this...from Tom...
The Evo is the ultimate kite for me. I pair it with 24 meter lines and the Team Series board with straps. The Team Series is everything I look for in a board; it?s fast and light. I ride the 140cm x 42cm as a bigger board is softer in the chop and offers more stability on the landings. I ?m not a huge fan of using a handle for board-offs so I like to put a bit of foam on the top edge of the board and patch of skate grip on the bottom. It gives me a firm grip especially here in the cold water where you can?t feel your hands.
Okay then handle has to go!
Not really. Most boards have a slight flex in the middle and more flex into the tips. The tips are where most good rail riders spend most of their time sliding anyway.
You lose nothing by having a handle on your board, but you do make it easier for others to pick up if you lose it out the back. I know people who won't pick up a board in the water unless it has a handle because it's a pain in the arse otherwise.
Removing it for style points? Seriously? Maybe if you're doing a photo shoot.
hahaha. Just get boots then no-one will need to pick up your board ;) problem solvered.
p.s. If you can't work out how to grab a strap rather than a handle to collect someones board I don't think you have the skills to be collecting someones board in the first place, better to leave it to someone who knows what they are doing.
On second thoughts, I've changed my mind.
Boards, even boots boards should have at least 4 handles - one on each rail between the straps and one at each tip. Perhaps two at each tip, at right angles to each other and one in the centre between the two rail handles as well, just to be safe. That's 7 handles, but will it ever really be enough? Maybe the whole board could be a handle? Oh wait, it already is ...
If you want a handle that won't add much stiffness to a board, just screw on a piece of flexible hose (garden hose or the like).It works like a handle and looks rad too! 
(one of my exerimental boards still has the dodgy irrigation hose handle I whacked on it years ago just to try it out)
For me, I'd rather the conveniance of handle and don't particularly care what it looks like...
Select to expand quotesir ROWDY said..
Yes the right amount of flex... which when hitting rails is super minimal in a wakeboard. Toby also rides a 19m kite in 10m kite weather... so if you want to go copy him I'm sure a flexy 128cm board with a big goofy handle will suit you well. Good guys do their board-offs without the handle. Ian Graham and Dan Anderson both Aussies are still the 2 best guys I've seen at them neither of them needed a handle.
Sure. So, with all due respect, how do you know the right amount of flex for me? Not for you. For me? More questions than answers I guess.
Good guys can do whatever. With.A.Handle.It.Is.Easier.
Yep. A guy from Perth moved to Safety Bay for work. You might see some awesome stuff from him soon. Some awesome rotations with a boards off. Some awesome walks. Etc etc.
Yep I know who you are talking about, he was down our parts a couple of weeks back, real inspirational. His powered loops weren't to shabby either!!
Cheers eppo.
We will sorely miss him at my local. Our loss, your gain:)
Also one inspirational guy for me was Nelly from Bali. You might remember him from channel 7 about 2yrs ago, the clip about Perth...
Interestingly he is Indo Airstyle Champ and riding an 90cm board with a handle. Yes. 90cm. How about that?! :)
Out jumping everyone with a boards off on his 7m Lithium DNA. When we were on 9. Impossible. The board stiff like a concrete slab. God forbid:)
Select to expand quotedbabicwa said..sir ROWDY said..
Yes the right amount of flex... which when hitting rails is super minimal in a wakeboard. Toby also rides a 19m kite in 10m kite weather... so if you want to go copy him I'm sure a flexy 128cm board with a big goofy handle will suit you well. Good guys do their board-offs without the handle. Ian Graham and Dan Anderson both Aussies are still the 2 best guys I've seen at them neither of them needed a handle.
Sure. So, with all due respect, how do you know the right amount of flex for me? Not for you. For me?
.
I don't know, how would I know??? I was just commenting on this statement you made -Select to expand quotehere: "When you're hitting the rails, you don't want the stiffness of the traditional wakeboards. You want them to adapt to the impact and, therefore, to be more flexible."
Which whether people realise it or not is actually referring to having SOME flex, not a dead stiff board like a traditional wakeboard is, which is meerly what I was pointing out. You still wouldn't be able to feel one of these new rail boards flexing in the middle while riding along.
Oh man, this is one of those threads where everybody gets hurt fee fees 
How bout if I just tell you I love you all equally, then you can stop squabblin'
