Hi
I was wondering if anyone could give me some information about the principle or pictures of the blowout valve on the Flysurfer Pulse.
I am flying a PL (foil) and like any other kite it does not like to be crashed hard. In general it can take a beating but what I find is when the front lines of the kite are slack (i.e. landing a jump down wind of the kite) the kite will loose it's shape and will drift like a leaf in the wind leaving the "pilot" without any control. What happens after that can result in a major crash blowing seams or worse.
I'm playing with the idea to put in an blowout vent to prevent the kite from damages. I heard that the new Flysurfers have a blowout valve and was wondering how this works and whether this can be applied to a PL.
Any info, pictures or ideas are very appreciated.
With kite regards, Martyn
Hi Rob and Bjoern,
Thanks for the info that is much appreciated. I wonder if those rubber strips are very stiff or magnetic? For now I'm thinking about opening three cells at the trailing edge of the kite and close it of with velcro, the question is will it close again if the velcro is applied to the full width of the cell? Secondly looking at the video of the Psycho, it looks like the valve is close to the leading edge of the kite, Germans do things with a reason so perhaps a blow out valve at the trailing edge might not protect the kite from damaging. The final obstacle if I use velcro how wide should it be, the wider the more force it will take to open, the narrower the easier. Well I guess I have to do some experimenting. Anyway thanks again for your info, all input is appreciated. I'll post my results if you're interested.
Kite regards Martyn
Dude do a search and email MrFloat, I think he has done this already.
My old arc had a but value to inflate it, vlecro opening in the trailind edge about 30cm long. Once I stacked it so hard the valve poped open. From memory I swam the kite in.
I am thinking that once the kite is leading edge down with with a hole in the trailing edge letting out all the air, the kite is not going to launch very well.
hey martyn..
if you can wait for a week, I can show you in perth what it looks like, and how it works.. arriving in perth on the 6th in the evening and hope that we'll rip on the 7th at woddies.
for those who are interested as well, i let you know, where we'll hang arround..
cheers
mathias
I think that when PLs pop they usually blow out at the TE so placing velcro there would be good. It may not close well for water tightness after a crash but certainly well enough to fly right. If you found the correct material i think that the flysurfer system would be easy enough to copy. A sailmaker might be able to do it for you at a good price. Of course this is far more expensive and complicated than velcro at the TE.
BTW, they are just stiff, not magnetic.
mike
Hi, I had a good look at this the other week. The material is stiff as has been said. The reason for placing it towards the front would most likely be that this is where the pressure is initially generated when the kite hits the water, by releasing it immediately it is more likely to reduce potential damage to the kite. They do not "pop" open due to the pressure but more from the deformation in the kite. Orientation is perpendicular to the leading edge, if they were parallel they would probably not work as when the kite hits there would be no deformation along that line. So by placing them along the trailing edge as you have suggested you are going to be relying entirely on the pressure increase to open it, not on any change in the kite dimension. This would probably mean that you will have issues with it closing and sealing again. With the flysurfer kite, once the initial impact is over and the pressure wave has released from the kite, the distortion finishes and the kite will return to its dimensions and the valve will close automatically.
Mind you this is just my take on the situation. :)
Cheers
I think that it is more pressure than deformation. You can bow-tie a PL and it doesn't pop. That is pretty serious deformation. I do think that you are correct about the placement of the valve (known as the 'over pressure valve') as it relies on the deformation of the kite to open and then relieve the excess pressure.
mike
Hi again.
Just for my own interest, in the PL, is the over pressure release in the same place as the Flysurfer?
Cheers
No they don't have any.
The first arc had a roll up release valve on the TE which if the kite was crashed hard might pop open .It was all over tho and you were swimming with a flat kite .I have developed a relief valve that I can't tell about until it is patented which is tested and works on all foils .it is different to the FS
Hi everyone,
Thanks for the input. I am very interested in the valve with the pending patent. I guess that the deformation helps the opening of the flysurfer valve. That would explain why they placed it vertically.
I wonder where the biggest pressure build up in the kite is when it is crashed. I recently had a blow out through a seam, it started about 30 cm from the LE and opened the seam for app 60cm towards the trailing edge. I guess it is the weakest seam/spot that goes. The problem is with a foil that it fills with water and that it is quite a mission to get it back on dry land in a beating surf as at Floreat beach.
I guess the more simple the solution the better the result/durability and that follows suit with the PL approach so I'm still leaning towards the velcro. The PL's have sand/water bailing velcro openings at the wing tips. When I launch I always open them to bail any sand and when I land I noticed that they are always shut close. The length of the opening is quite short and the width of the velcro is app 2cm so this does not open too easy (perhaps the pressure build up in the tip is not that big to open it anyway). On an occassion I forgot to close my (middle) deflating zipper and crashed the kite on the water. It took me a while to sort out my lines and the kite was quite deflated when I relaunched. So relaunching with poorly inflated kite is possible and the principle of closing a short opening with velcro while flying works. Will this also work for a bigger opening or should multiple short openings (2 or 3) in one cell be applied?
Well any input is appreciated and thanks again for thinking along with me ;-)
Kite regards, Martyn
try replacing the deflate zipper with a roll up vecro opening like on the 1120 arc.
i'd try it but i never crash mine so its not a problem.
weird you crash yours with the auto zenith.
the 1120 arc flies with the velcro wide open as i'm sure the venoms would if you had one installed.
I would definitely go with one big opening. I would put on just one and then see how well it closes up after being forced open. If it closes well the stick them on every 2nd or 3rd cell. If it stays open put them on every 4th cell. This way the kite will stay inflated nicely while flying after big crash. And i would only to it on the middle cells, I doubt the cells near the tips would pop.
mike
Hi All,
So this is what I have done. Before I applied anything to my kite I made a test cell. This was basically a ripstop nylon bag of 40cm x 20 cm. I sewed a strip of 15mm velcro along one opening, blew up the bag, closed it off with one hand and gave it a good hit with the other hand. About 50mm opened starting with the biggest opening in the middle, so that was an encouraging start. When I was blowing the cell up I noticed that the velcro leaked considerably, I solved this little problem with a strip ripstop of 3cm wide and with the same length as the cell's width. I folded the strip of ripstop along the length and gave it a single stich along (very close to) the fold. If folded open again, the ripstop strip will stay at a 90 degree angle. I sewed the ripstop strip under the velcro with the fold against the end of the velcro. In this way the ripstop will prevent air leaking trough the velcro. When I was happy with the test cell, I cut the velcro to a 10mm width and for now only applied it to the trailing edge of the middle cell of my kite. This gave me the opportunity to open the deflating zipper and see whether the ripstop strip will get in between the velcro when it closes up again. So far the ripstop stays nicely at a 90 degree angle preventing air from leaking through the velcro.
Yesterday I went out on the water and the velcro stayed in place, it does not open while fying by the pressure inside of the kite. Unfortunately I did not have anyone to assist me to simulate a crash by opening the velcro so I could relaunch and see whether the velcro would close up again. I hope to do this next time, so I'll keep you posted.
Kite regards, Martyn
Hi All,
So here are my findings: to start with it does not work
In case of a crash it does not open while my seem still ripped.
Also it leaks air and even worse it lets in water into the kite.
The loss of air will lead to an increased chance of bowtieing while the water just makes relauching impossible all together.
What did work is that the velcro closed on its own so one little plus.
So much for my idea, I'm looking forward to any pending patents coming onto the market.
Kite regards, Martyn
Martyn I have flown PLs for about 3 years and only popped my 10 once due to grabbing the bar the wrong way after a relaunch and smashing it into water at high speed , other than that never even looked like popping one .If you are crashing your kite so much maybe you should look at your technique as the PLs do have a slightly different flying style than other kites. If you are landing under your kite after a jump it probably means your not flying the kite forward when you are in the air and if your front lines do go slack just reach as high as you can on the front lines and pull as hard as you can and you will find most times it pulls the kite back into shape before you loose control. I fly down at Floreat and Brighten most of the time and although Iam no expert I would gladly give you any tips to stop you crashing so much or just PM me
