Any beginners experienced the 2017 model or an equivalent?
What is the total weight - does it seem too heavy?
Just getting over keen to start but nothing much to go with here.
Select to expand quotewarwickl said..
Any beginners experienced the 2017 model or an equivalent?
What is the total weight - does it seem too heavy?
Just getting over keen to start but nothing much to go with here.
Hmmmmm, and this is code for what?
I have a 2016 Cab DA good board & foil to learn on , very low aspect foil (big and fat) The new 2017 model is same foils but new lighter mast and smaller board. It's a mid-length mast around 850mm which is a bit long to learn on. Sligshot have a multi mast length which is great for learning and a more medium aspect foil plus they have a few boards to choose from , wouldn't recommend the Dwarfs for learning , the converter is the pick.
Good beginner setup. It was the second foil I tried, early on in my learning process.
It was slow but stable and easy to ride, forgiving to gross inputs...found it needed to be forced up onto the foil with the back foot, so I wouldn't worry about the "long" mast.
Prehistoric design that sells because of the name that is on it..... Would consider it if the set up was no more than $1500 but since it is not the the case I'd look at something else.
Some better option out there for similar or even better price.
Zeeko, Alpine, Airush to name a few.
A few foil boards that look promising are:
Liquid Force Rocket/Fish
Slinshot Alien
Cabrinha double agent
All seem beginer friendly and could fit the budget
North also look ok but could be outside the budget for a beginner
Comments please.
All are going to be fine. What most people complain about is the weight of the foil. It might not seem like a big deal but you will notice it during your (probably frequent) walks down the beach.
The North is the lightest and if you can buy one for the same price as the others then go for it. The downside is they no longer advertise it on their website so I suspect you won't see any upgraded wings for it. I quite fancied one as its possibly the easiest to learn on and its the quickest to assemble but its hard to justify the price premium over the others (twice the price here).
Slingshot have probably the best boards for learning/light wind as they have a little more volume. They use (slighly) higher aspect wings so should glide better (although whether you would notice is another matter).
The Naish one looks alright, the Nobile Zen looks interesting too as other options. The zeeko foil looks the best for long term progression but it kind of depends on your attitude to learning. i.e. would you recommend a learner to get a beginner kite and then change over once they reached a more experienced level or buy a really good kite now even if it might be more difficult to get to grips with and might have been superseded by a better version by the time they were ready for it? It probably depends on how athletic and quick to pick stuff up you are. Me, I need every bit of advantage possible so I went for a cheap, carbon delta wing set up to make it as easy as possible.
Naish is an identical copy of the (no longer sold) Fun foil and the (same as the Fun but red) Rocket foil.
The Hover 160 board is way too big and nose heavy, but I'm keen for a go on the 130 but only 3 strap set up :(
Slingshot HoverGlide does indeed glide, is more roll stable in general, and pitch stable at speed, than the LF but likes to cruise faster and has an aggressive nose up on a low speed stall.
If you're interested in low wind riding and noodling around in general, you'll be happy with any learner foil no matter how "prehistoric" the design.
If you want to tack and race and go fast, I would just buy a used race foil and be done with it.
I think the dual purpose boards are a bit of a waste of time; too small and compromised but I'm fat and like what I like and it's not dual purpose boards :D
Also think large boards for learning on are a waste of time too. Borrow but don't buy.
I agree about the dual use boards. They only seem a good idea whenever I'm packing to go on an aeroplane.
I don't have any evidence to back it up but it 'feels' like the volume 'might' help with those nose first touch downs. The buoyancy certainly feels helpful on the swim back to shore when the wind drops too. But I'd go for low weight over buoyancy any day.
I haven't had a chance to try a single front strap board. Why don't you like the 3 strap setup? I can't see how learning with 3 straps has been a problem so far. In fact, the twin strap videos from Liquid Force and the like talk about letting go with the front hand to help turn your hips. With a 3 strap setup my hips are already rotated so it feels natural to hold the bar with both hands (avoids the problem where you can lose power in the kite as it slowly moves to 12 due to holding with the back hand only).
I don't think volume helps --- unless it's all in the nose, like the Hover 160 
It does help for getting up and getting a power stroke in when underpowered. Then it becomes a burden.
Even the LF Foil Fish, which is IIRC 17L volume, has more than enough to roll up a sodden S3 21 and plop it on top for a swim in. More volume just means the buggers charge downwind like a rocket when you've fallen off, too.
Big fat feet. With a single front strap, I tuck only my toes under for a start then assume a regular stance --- nice and open --- and if I bail, my foot slips out easily. Three straps, I have to jam my feet further in there. My SS board has even "smaller" straps 
Three straps also forces my heel closer to the edge and I don't like the loss of toe input in pitch control. I tend to prefer not switching feet and just gybe around on my "good" side :D
Select to expand quoteweebitbreezy said..
I agree about the dual use boards. They only seem a good idea whenever I'm packing to go on an aeroplane.
I don't have any evidence to back it up but it 'feels' like the volume 'might' help with those nose first touch downs. The buoyancy certainly feels helpful on the swim back to shore when the wind drops too. But I'd go for low weight over buoyancy any day.
I haven't had a chance to try a single front strap board. Why don't you like the 3 strap setup? I can't see how learning with 3 straps has been a problem so far. In fact, the twin strap videos from Liquid Force and the like talk about letting go with the front hand to help turn your hips. With a 3 strap setup my hips are already rotated so it feels natural to hold the bar with both hands (avoids the problem where you can lose power in the kite as it slowly moves to 12 due to holding with the back hand only).
I have foil bolted to my mutant (145x45) freaken similar shape to the double agent. My foils are higher aspect and my board is mutantable so its more versatile than the double agent.
I love it. I simply take one board to the beach. Straps are set up in the same place for mutant or foil riding. So its just bolt or unbolt the foil. Unless its blowing 30+ bastards and i want to boost big I'll then slap the TT pads and straps on.
I leave the fins on.
I learnt on the above set up. So foot hook and no back strap. Its real good for exiting the board during the multiple crashes you do for the first month or so.
I think rocker is more important for touch downs. So i'm not convinced about the need for volume for that. Volume might help initial slow riding after a water start before foiling?
I'm trying to learn to jybe right now and finding that real hard. So i'm thinking a board with volume might help with jybes.
Take the fins off--if you skim the peak of swell or chop and they touch, they grab and buck
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..
Take the fins off--if you skim the peak of swell or chop and they touch, they grab and buck
No. This is a dual purpose board. Fins stay on so all I need to do is bolt on or unbolt the foil. Plus they make zero difference when riding the foil.
Select to expand quotePlummet said...Kamikuza said..
Take the fins off--if you skim the peak of swell or chop and they touch, they grab and buck
No. This is a dual purpose board. Fins stay on so all I need to do is bolt on or unbolt the foil. Plus they make zero difference when riding the foil.
They do, your just haven't noticed it ;)
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said...Plummet said...Kamikuza said..
Take the fins off--if you skim the peak of swell or chop and they touch, they grab and buck
No. This is a dual purpose board. Fins stay on so all I need to do is bolt on or unbolt the foil. Plus they make zero difference when riding the foil.
They do, your just haven't noticed it ;)
I have zero bucking, grabbing during touch downs. Perhaps you have an inferior design?
Hi Plummet,
I like your foot hook, did you make it or buy it.
I prefer to my ride my foil fish strapless - seems the only way I can consistantly jibe (though I only use the front strap, it still seems to throw my off) But as I only ride off the beach, it can be a hassle without the straps; whenever water starting on the bigger swell/wave or lighter wind when you are concentrating on looping the kite or keeping it afloat to have to worry about the board as well.
Thanks
Scott
Made it. Cut up the missis chopping board and attacked it it with a heat gun.
Yeah I'm struggling with jybes strapped. But I need to sort it as I want to jump. Need the straps
Select to expand quotePlummet said...Kamikuza said...Plummet said...Kamikuza said..
Take the fins off--if you skim the peak of swell or chop and they touch, they grab and buck
No. This is a dual purpose board. Fins stay on so all I need to do is bolt on or unbolt the foil. Plus they make zero difference when riding the foil.
They do, your just haven't noticed it ;)
I have zero bucking, grabbing during touch downs. Perhaps you have an inferior design?
Not talking about touchdowns.
What equipment are you talking about?
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..
Not talking about touchdowns.
What the hell are you talking about then? skimming the top of a peak of a swell is a touchdown in my book.
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said...
It was the second foil I tried,
I allways thought you were a kook kamikuza. Now I know you are.
Foil boarding
Hah!
Select to expand quotePlummet said..
What the hell are you talking about then? skimming the top of a peak of a swell is a touchdown in my book.
What do you call dropping the whole board onto the water then? Is this the same kind of problem you have with the definition of "jump"?
What equipment are you talking about?
