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Board flex, pop and knee issues

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Created by Evan Chia > 9 months ago, 16 Apr 2010
Evan Chia
QLD, 41 posts
16 Apr 2010 8:00PM
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I have recently been suffering some knee pain and am searching for a board that has good pop, but soft landings (if it is possible!).

At the moment I am into unhooked powered freestyle tricks and have been riding a 131cm 09 Nobile 666 with an 11m SS Fuel.

The Nobile 666 is a flat stiff board with a single concave. I absolutely love it. It is the fastest board I've used, and with a bit of loading pops huge. The only problem is that since I have injured my knee, I am really feeling the hard landings.

I am trying to find a board that will give me the pop for tricks like 'railey to blind' (and hopefully blind judges later on), but can also be softish on landings.

After trying many boards, I am finding that these seem to be opposite ends of the spectrum. Stiff boards seem to pop well, but give hard landings. Flexy boards give soft landings, but don't pop as well.

I absolutely loved the Balance board, but it is still hard on the landings. I also loved the UG Styx which was soft on the landings, but the board is a little slow.

Opinions anyone? Good pop with soft landings. Is it possible?

kiter zac
QLD, 295 posts
17 Apr 2010 12:03AM
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slingshot lunacy

sir ROWDY
WA, 5366 posts
16 Apr 2010 10:07PM
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First of all, a railey to blind is a blind judge.
Ok now I've got that out of the way I suggest you have a ride of the new slingshot "darko" if you are in to straps or a Cardboards custom.

Spacemonkey!
SA, 2288 posts
16 Apr 2010 11:48PM
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sir ROWDY said...

First of all, a railey to blind is a blind judge.
Ok now I've got that out of the way I suggest you have a ride of the new slingshot "darko" if you are in to straps or a Cardboards custom.


Blind judge is a switch railey to blind if you want to be technical.

caveman
QLD, 116 posts
17 Apr 2010 8:27AM
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Underground FLX

Evan Chia
QLD, 41 posts
17 Apr 2010 8:56AM
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The Lunacy has massive pop, but a mate down at my beach has said that every now and then he gets some really hard landings. I would assume a flat rectangular board would do this no matter what the flex.

The FLX is really soft, but it doesn't have the pop I am after.

The old Cardboard Tempos are really comfy, but they were slow and terrible for upwind. I have heard the new ones are stiffer, so it could maybe be an option.

The North Xride is a fast, flexy board but I found it hard to consistently load this board up.

I know I'm being really critical, but that's the point of this post. I know all the boards mentioned are great boards, but I thought that maybe someone who has tried a lot of boards would be able to direct me to a board that would be a good compromise between pop and soft landings.

BTW Has anyone heard anything about the Xenon La Luz? Or the F One Trax or Acid 3? North Jaime Pro?

INTHELOOP
QLD, 1855 posts
17 Apr 2010 9:50AM
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Evan Chia said...

The Lunacy has massive pop, but a mate down at my beach has said that every now and then he gets some really hard landings. I would assume a flat rectangular board would do this no matter what the flex.

The FLX is really soft, but it doesn't have the pop I am after.

The old Cardboard Tempos are really comfy, but they were slow and terrible for upwind. I have heard the new ones are stiffer, so it could maybe be an option.

The North Xride is a fast, flexy board but I found it hard to consistently load this board up.

I know I'm being really critical, but that's the point of this post. I know all the boards mentioned are great boards, but I thought that maybe someone who has tried a lot of boards would be able to direct me to a board that would be a good compromise between pop and soft landings.

BTW Has anyone heard anything about the Xenon La Luz? Or the F One Trax or Acid 3? North Jaime Pro?




Hi Evan,

we have been testing the La Luz for the past month and it is an incredible board.
It is so light and effortless riding and super smooth.
The shock absorption is like nothing else on the market.
Where in QLD are you located? Maybe you can demo ride the laluz!


cheers

skiddz
NT, 237 posts
17 Apr 2010 9:45AM
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bindings might be your best option. I've always found they are much softer on landings than any straps I've ever ridden

Spacemonkey!
SA, 2288 posts
17 Apr 2010 10:00AM
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Evan Chia said...

The Lunacy has massive pop, but a mate down at my beach has said that every now and then he gets some really hard landings. I would assume a flat rectangular board would do this no matter what the flex.

The FLX is really soft, but it doesn't have the pop I am after.

The old Cardboard Tempos are really comfy, but they were slow and terrible for upwind. I have heard the new ones are stiffer, so it could maybe be an option.

The North Xride is a fast, flexy board but I found it hard to consistently load this board up.

I know I'm being really critical, but that's the point of this post. I know all the boards mentioned are great boards, but I thought that maybe someone who has tried a lot of boards would be able
to direct me to a board that would be a good compromise between pop and soft landings.

BTW Has anyone heard anything about the Xenon La Luz? Or the F One Trax or Acid 3? North
Jaime Pro?



I don't really agree with you regarding the tempo. No such thing as a slow board just underpowered riding. It has a bit more rocker than most so you do need to ride a slightly larger board than say a door like the lunacy. As for upwind have had no trouble on mine however similar to the comments about speed a larger board does help. Sounds like you rode it too underpowered.

Rhys McClintock
NSW, 995 posts
17 Apr 2010 10:47AM
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Hey Evan come in and grab the Darko - Rowdys right, it's a bit softer than the Lunacy and still has the pop (good straps too)...

terryzarmzof
QLD, 336 posts
17 Apr 2010 11:03AM
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the 2010 666 nhp is way better for landings and pop but slower as it has heaps of rocker and quad concave. that would be the go

Mattress
NSW, 120 posts
17 Apr 2010 11:31AM
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I'll second that. The 2010 NHP is the board to get.

SaveTheWhales
WA, 1896 posts
17 Apr 2010 9:42AM
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Evan Dude

Are your footstraps the black N white standard one ???

If they are, thats all the problem is. Dont waste money on a new board.

I have a 140 for lightwind and the same pads gave me shat as well and thru the heels from big landings... I bought a pair of these and love knowing I can fork it right up and not worry - go read for yourself.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Kiteboard-Kiteboarding-NICE-AF-PRO-Pad-and-strap-combo_W0QQitemZ300409532559QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Sport_Surfing?hash=item45f1cdb08f



I just bought a new Fone Trax 5 134 x39 (for big arse jumping) will try it out on thursday & let you know how it goes for $1200 ??? If the pads arent as good - I'll be buying another pair, no messing around now I know the difference.

Cheers Clay



sir ROWDY
WA, 5366 posts
17 Apr 2010 11:11AM
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Spacemonkey! said...

sir ROWDY said...

First of all, a railey to blind is a blind judge.
Ok now I've got that out of the way I suggest you have a ride of the new slingshot "darko" if you are in to straps or a Cardboards custom.


Blind judge is a switch railey to blind if you want to be technical.


Its not actually.

Blind Judge: Heelside Raley with a backside 180 - Invented by Parks Bonifay.

Your thinking of a hasselhoff, which is a switch frontflip to blind.

djdojo
VIC, 1614 posts
17 Apr 2010 2:00PM
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A slightly different perspective:

Some joggers spend big bucks on fancy shoes and still get knee pain, whilst others are fine running in any old things. The difference (prior injuries and conditions aside) is in how they co-ordinate themselves as they run. (I teach runners and other athletes, dancers etc. from beginners to elite competitors.)

Other examples are Kelly Slater and Roger Federer. They've each had long careers with very few injuries because they move so well. They expend effort more efficiently than their peers, achieving greater power and less injury by co-ordinating themselves well.

As I observe other kiters, there are big differences in overall strategies/approaches to landing, as well as differences in the subtler ways of co-ordinating within any given approach. Whilst I can't teach you over the internet, I can offer some pointers. (Again, I'm not an expert kiter, but I am an expert at analysing movement and optimising co-ordination.)

Firstly, spotting your landing is essential to timing it. If your timing is good, your legs will be maximally available to spread the load of landing both through time (more range of movement) and space (more joints fully involved) thereby minimising the peak load on any given joint.

Secondly, it helps to have a clear understanding and mapping (your own physical self-image) of the major joints involved in absorbing the load of landing. Specifically your hip joints, knees and ankles.

Hip joints are the joints between each femur and each side of your pelvis. They are often lower and closer together than people imagine them to be. They are not quite at the bottom of your torso, but more either side of the lower narrower part of your pelvis.

Knee joints are between the bottom of your femur and the top of your tibia. Most people know this, but did you know that when you bend your knee your tibia slides around the bottom of your femur? This joint is not a hinge, it is one smaller curved surface on the tibia that slides across a larger curved surface (from the bottom to the back) of the femur.

Ankle joints are most often mis-mapped as being too low and too far back. They are well above and forward from your heel.

If you take some time to look at pictures or better still a real skeleton, and then play with how and where these joints move yourself, you'll likely learn something useful.

Here's one of my favourite pics:



Take this new knowledge into activities like squatting, sitting, and walking to integrate new ideas about particular joints within a more functional activity.

Landing on a kiteboard is basically just a matter of squatting a bit at the right time. Sometimes you'll be twisted, sometimes bending one leg more than the other, sometimes leaning further forward or backward. Experimenting slowly on land will help you find more efficient, safe and powerful ways of landing on the water, whatever board you ride.



YoMoFo
NSW, 240 posts
17 Apr 2010 2:59PM
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skiddz said...

bindings might be your best option. I've always found they are much softer on landings than any straps I've ever ridden


Boom!

Spacemonkey!
SA, 2288 posts
17 Apr 2010 3:22PM
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sir ROWDY said...

Spacemonkey! said...

sir ROWDY said...

First of all, a railey to blind is a blind judge.
Ok now I've got that out of the way I suggest you have a ride of the new slingshot "darko" if you are in to straps or a Cardboards custom.


Blind judge is a switch railey to blind if you want to be technical.


Its not actually.

Blind Judge: Heelside Raley with a backside 180 - Invented by Parks Bonifay.

Your thinking of a hasselhoff, which is a switch frontflip to blind.


Are you 100% on that because I've heard several wakeboarders tell me that. It is impossible to google anything like this because as soon as you type blind judge into google you get a million youtube videos of kiters trying to show you how to do pull ups. I stand corrected if you certain.

skiddz
NT, 237 posts
17 Apr 2010 3:36PM
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in wakeboarding a blind judge is definitely a raley with a backside 180

sir ROWDY
WA, 5366 posts
17 Apr 2010 2:07PM
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Positive.
Just a Railey to BS180.
Doesn't need to be switch and definitely doesn't need to be an "air pass" as so many dangle boarders somehow thinks that is what it means.

Evan Chia
QLD, 41 posts
17 Apr 2010 7:43PM
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djdojo said...

A slightly different perspective:

Other examples are Kelly Slater and Roger Federer. They've each had long careers with very few injuries because they move so well. They expend effort more efficiently than their peers, achieving greater power and less injury by co-ordinating themselves well.

Landing on a kiteboard is basically just a matter of squatting a bit at the right time. Sometimes you'll be twisted, sometimes bending one leg more than the other, sometimes leaning further forward or backward. Experimenting slowly on land will help you find more efficient, safe and powerful ways of landing on the water, whatever board you ride.



Djdojo

Good point, though not always easy to do when you lose yourself and can't spot your landing. Are squats the best way to strengthen my knee? Or is there a different technique?

jackgearo
NSW, 331 posts
17 Apr 2010 10:10PM
Thumbs Up

^^^^^^^
i (can sometimes) do an exercise to strengthen your knees by stand flat up against a wall with ur heels touching the base of the wall. u then bend at ur knees and lower ur body to the ground while ur back is always touching the wall. your heels will lift off the ground as your knees bend and u want to just go down and back up. not sure how many you should do but i can only do 4 maximum.....but my knees are not the best. i hurt my knees wakeboarding and this has been telled to me by several VERY good wakeboarders as to how to strengthen your knees against hard impacts

BennyB12
QLD, 918 posts
17 Apr 2010 11:36PM
Thumbs Up

nice info bro. havent learnt something cool for a while. cheers....

djdojo said...

A slightly different perspective:

Some joggers spend big bucks on fancy shoes and still get knee pain, whilst others are fine running in any old things. The difference (prior injuries and conditions aside) is in how they co-ordinate themselves as they run. (I teach runners and other athletes, dancers etc. from beginners to elite competitors.)

Other examples are Kelly Slater and Roger Federer. They've each had long careers with very few injuries because they move so well. They expend effort more efficiently than their peers, achieving greater power and less injury by co-ordinating themselves well.

As I observe other kiters, there are big differences in overall strategies/approaches to landing, as well as differences in the subtler ways of co-ordinating within any given approach. Whilst I can't teach you over the internet, I can offer some pointers. (Again, I'm not an expert kiter, but I am an expert at analysing movement and optimising co-ordination.)

Firstly, spotting your landing is essential to timing it. If your timing is good, your legs will be maximally available to spread the load of landing both through time (more range of movement) and space (more joints fully involved) thereby minimising the peak load on any given joint.

Secondly, it helps to have a clear understanding and mapping (your own physical self-image) of the major joints involved in absorbing the load of landing. Specifically your hip joints, knees and ankles.

Hip joints are the joints between each femur and each side of your pelvis. They are often lower and closer together than people imagine them to be. They are not quite at the bottom of your torso, but more either side of the lower narrower part of your pelvis.

Knee joints are between the bottom of your femur and the top of your tibia. Most people know this, but did you know that when you bend your knee your tibia slides around the bottom of your femur? This joint is not a hinge, it is one smaller curved surface on the tibia that slides across a larger curved surface (from the bottom to the back) of the femur.

Ankle joints are most often mis-mapped as being too low and too far back. They are well above and forward from your heel.

If you take some time to look at pictures or better still a real skeleton, and then play with how and where these joints move yourself, you'll likely learn something useful.

Here's one of my favourite pics:



Take this new knowledge into activities like squatting, sitting, and walking to integrate new ideas about particular joints within a more functional activity.

Landing on a kiteboard is basically just a matter of squatting a bit at the right time. Sometimes you'll be twisted, sometimes bending one leg more than the other, sometimes leaning further forward or backward. Experimenting slowly on land will help you find more efficient, safe and powerful ways of landing on the water, whatever board you ride.






INTHELOOP
QLD, 1855 posts
18 Apr 2010 11:30AM
Thumbs Up

Mattress said...

I'll second that. The 2010 NHP is the board to get.


agreed, it is a very nice board but the LaLuz is even nicer :)

djdojo
VIC, 1614 posts
18 Apr 2010 1:56PM
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Evan Chia said...


Good point, though not always easy to do when you lose yourself and can't spot your landing. Are squats the best way to strengthen my knee? Or is there a different technique?




My suggestion is more about exploring the co-ordination of leg flexion (bending at hip-joints, knees and ankles) than about strengthening.

Stronger muscles that aren't co-ordinating well just give you more power to hurt yourself. Squats, if done smoothly and whilst retaining mobility in (not overly stiffening) your torso can be an excellent way of strengthening all the big leg muscles as well as learning and practising the co-ordination of the basic movement pathways that will help soften landings.

There are many ways of squatting. Experiment with how you sequence the movement at different joints. Try them with your torso more forwards, more upright, and learn how that effects what differences that requires in your leg joints (more movement at some, less at others).

Basically what you're after is ways of co-ordinating yourself so that the load is fairly evenly distributed: not just taken at one joint, not just concentrated at muscles on the back of your torso and legs nor just on the front.

The more ways you have of squatting and bending, the better prepared you'll be for different landing scenarios.

junglist
VIC, 701 posts
18 Apr 2010 6:26PM
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SaveTheWhales said...

I just bought a new Fone Trax 5 134 x39 (for big arse jumping) will try it out on thursday & let you know how it goes for $1200 ??? If the pads arent as good - I'll be buying another pair, no messing around now I know the difference.

Cheers Clay






Hey Clay that Trax 5 is one mother of a good looking board I am looking for something next season for big air and am thinking of the NHP but the Trax may also be the go....

Post a review mate as I would be very interested.

Cheers

SaveTheWhales
WA, 1896 posts
18 Apr 2010 5:58PM
Thumbs Up

Hey Jungist

Will post a 'non biast' review of this board when we get some more wind in Perth. At the moment its back to no wind winter, a nice little Cyclone would be great

Looks like it can megaloop by itself - for the price it better
Dunno bout the 'Black' board doing dissappearing tricks, maybe a board leash

Cheers Clay

Charl dv
WA, 2485 posts
19 Apr 2010 4:09PM
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when i rolled my knee my physio gave me cool excersises to strengthen me back up, just get a big block of foam or an airdisk and do one leg squats on that (unstable surface replicates water movement is what he said) and it helps strengthen all the stabilizers.

i had to do that and tight rope walk along a long strip of foam while catching balls thrown at me to help train my balance up. and lastly jumping from a couple of stairs onto this foam pad, jumping forwards, sideways and backwards.



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"Board flex, pop and knee issues" started by Evan Chia