Select to expand quotesalt said..
In terms of licences start with these first:
Sports with the most serious injuries
% of injured reporting serious injury
Boxing 55%
Rock Climbing 43%
Rugby League 34%
Horse Riding 31%
Sailing 30%
Rugby Union 28%
Agree, add Downhill Mountainbiking to that list. Smashed myself many more a time, and much worse injuries (broken bones) than any kiteboarding session. Worst I've done Kiting is a couple of strains and dent's in the ego.
Select to expand quoteaxion said..
I had intended on not posting, as being a local in I don't want this to get too much publicity but after reading all of the comments I feel there are a few things that I would like to say. Firstly I watched the whole event unfold and I have to say it is easily the worst thing I have ever witnessed, I still feel shaken about it today. My heart goes out to his family and friends and I really hope he survives this as it was a horrific accident. Also to everyone that was there a big pat on the back as I think we all did everything that could be done under the circumstances. Our responsibility now is to make sure this never happens again.
I was probably only 20 metres from the poor guy when he was lofted. There was nothing anyone could do to help him it all happened so quick. The only chance the guy had was to pull his safety the instant he got in trouble which he did not. The first thing he hit was the brick wall that runs parallel to the footpath, he went headfirst into this and I am certain it would have knocked him unconcious. Maybe if he was wearing a helmet this would have given him enough of a chance to pull his safety before getting dragged into a car, over the road and ultimately into powerlines. I wear a helmet and after seeing this I think it is a sensible precaution for anyone kiting.
In relation to the launching area in Altona I think there is a little confusion and I think it would definitely help to have some more signage. I have kited in Altona for the past year and I thought you were ok to launch past the last lamp post and this is past the kite launching sign but not far enough along so as to be in front of the trees. After watching this accident yesterday it should be mandatory at Altona to launch with the trees at your back and I will always do this from now on and as kiters at Altona we should refuse to launch kites for people who do not launch in a safe area. it may be a good idea to have a large sign that spells this out so there is no confusion.
There is also a large range of kiters that use Altona and I think it is fair to say that there are some very experienced kiters that need to take more responsibility there. You are the role models of our community and it you self launch in the open in front of the car park or bring your kite in and land it on the grass 5 meters from the road because you do not want sand on your kite beginners will see you and try and imitate you. I will certainly be taking more precautions for my own safety and I will also not tolerate watching others take risks as the consequences are far too severe.
Quick question?
Are you a memnber of AKSA and have insurance??
Select to expand quoteBritRich said..
Hope this guy recovers from this.
... An example, Sunday last week, gusty 30-35kn winds - 2 Irish guys setting up a 10m BWS west of the little rock groin, completely the wrong place to set-up and they obviously didn't have a clue by the way they were looking at the bar + lines. I mentioned to them that rigging up there wasn't the safest place (2m from the rock wall / road with no trees + margin for error) and that a 10m was too big for the conditions - the reply "we'll be OK, the kite has lots of depower" = ****wits.
Saffer - guy on the Liquid Force you mentioned is a lost cause, I believe he's taught himself so has no clue regarding any right of way rules or safety aspects
Ridiculous how those that are obviously stupid and risk takers, hardly get hurt! Yet the in-experienced that has no clue but tries (or thought they did) do the right thing gets hurt! Go figure.
Select to expand quoteNoBS said..axion said..
I had intended on not posting, as being a local in I don't want this to get too much publicity but after reading all of the comments I feel there are a few things that I would like to say. Firstly I watched the whole event unfold and I have to say it is easily the worst thing I have ever witnessed, I still feel shaken about it today. My heart goes out to his family and friends and I really hope he survives this as it was a horrific accident. Also to everyone that was there a big pat on the back as I think we all did everything that could be done under the circumstances. Our responsibility now is to make sure this never happens again.
I was probably only 20 metres from the poor guy when he was lofted. There was nothing anyone could do to help him it all happened so quick. The only chance the guy had was to pull his safety the instant he got in trouble which he did not. The first thing he hit was the brick wall that runs parallel to the footpath, he went headfirst into this and I am certain it would have knocked him unconcious. Maybe if he was wearing a helmet this would have given him enough of a chance to pull his safety before getting dragged into a car, over the road and ultimately into powerlines. I wear a helmet and after seeing this I think it is a sensible precaution for anyone kiting.
In relation to the launching area in Altona I think there is a little confusion and I think it would definitely help to have some more signage. I have kited in Altona for the past year and I thought you were ok to launch past the last lamp post and this is past the kite launching sign but not far enough along so as to be in front of the trees. After watching this accident yesterday it should be mandatory at Altona to launch with the trees at your back and I will always do this from now on and as kiters at Altona we should refuse to launch kites for people who do not launch in a safe area. it may be a good idea to have a large sign that spells this out so there is no confusion.
There is also a large range of kiters that use Altona and I think it is fair to say that there are some very experienced kiters that need to take more responsibility there. You are the role models of our community and it you self launch in the open in front of the car park or bring your kite in and land it on the grass 5 meters from the road because you do not want sand on your kite beginners will see you and try and imitate you. I will certainly be taking more precautions for my own safety and I will also not tolerate watching others take risks as the consequences are far too severe.
Quick question?
Are you a memnber of AKSA and have insurance??
To be honest until yesterday I did not, yesterday was a wake up call for me and I became a paid member of KBV last night.
Good move..
At least now you have peace of mind that your family won't have to fork out if you become disabled or even pass away..
Select to expand quoteNoBS said..
Good move..
At least now you have peace of mind that your family won't have to fork out if you become disabled or even pass away..
I think I've said this before, but some of the onus has to fall on the shops.
Dear Shops,
[1] don't sell kites to people you think have not had a lesson - ask first, get customer to show some proof via names, trainers, etc and
[2] only sell kites to those that are willing to get insurance or are insured - again show membership, etc. Or why not sell them AKSA membership on the spot? Add it as part of the purchase price. What's $1800 compared to $50 or what ever it costs?
Select to expand quoteKazan said..NoBS said..
Good move..
At least now you have peace of mind that your family won't have to fork out if you become disabled or even pass away..
I think I've said this before, but some of the onus has to fall on the shops.
I don't think this has anything to do with the shops... nor should they take onus.
The idea of selling KBV memberships instore is a good idea but it's just as easy to get it online...
In the end it's up to the individual, if he isn't allowed to buy one from a shop they'll just ebay one... Anyhow this is all very much offtopic
I wish him and his family a speedy and healthy recovery - and again thank everyone that was there. It's a great sport and community let's not see it go to waste.
Select to expand quoterandom101 said..Kazan said..NoBS said..
Good move..
At least now you have peace of mind that your family won't have to fork out if you become disabled or even pass away..
I think I've said this before, but some of the onus has to fall on the shops.
I don't think this has anything to do with the shops... nor should they take onus.
The idea of selling KBV memberships instore is a good idea but it's just as easy to get it online...
In the end it's up to the individual, if he isn't allowed to buy one from a shop they'll just ebay one... Anyhow this is all very much offtopic
I wish him and his family a speedy and healthy recovery - and again thank everyone that was there. It's a great sport and community let's not see it go to waste.
I disagree, this is everyone's problem. Kiters, shops, instructors. It comes down to everyone doing their part to make sure these things don't happen.
Bit confused about the couple of posts that say it would be better to launch in front of the trees. I have no idea about Altona but isn't going through a tree potentially just as bad? I'm sure we've all seen this one:
Select to expand quoter1mick said...
#2. Melbournekiter - You are a dick. Trying to sledge a kite shop based on a brand. Get a hobby F#$%wit
Why would you be so horrible and hurtful? In response to another poster saying he might not have had lessons I said that he had a Rebel, and as a new kitesurfer in Melbourne it possibly meant that he had taken lessons at Kite Rep.
I took lessons there, and have the same kite. I'm sorry if I used the wrong words but there's no need for that on a thread such as this.
Saffer, I know where you are coming from but the shops are like car dealers they don't check experience. Its like giving someone a V8 off the car lot can they handle it?
I will put it this way I was coming home last night from my job at 12pm. There was a commodore just next to my house up on the nature strip stuck. He obviously had lost his car doing a burnout and went up the guide wire that supports the electricity pole. He was a giant tool and at the time I was going to call the police but it seems he had done more damage to his car so I didn't bother. Young bloke V8 nearly kills himself luck I was coming home late he could have taken me out.
Its a different story in Paragliding I think as you need a flight license to purchase a new paraglider. But there is always EBAY no questions there.
Select to expand quotebreakzmaker said...salt said..
In terms of licences start with these first:
Sports with the most serious injuries
% of injured reporting serious injury
Boxing 55%
Rock Climbing 43%
Rugby League 34%
Horse Riding 31%
Sailing 30%
Rugby Union 28%
Agree, add Downhill Mountainbiking to that list. Smashed myself many more a time, and much worse injuries (broken bones) than any kiteboarding session. Worst I've done Kiting is a couple of strains and dent's in the ego.
I tore my AC and CC in my shoulder needed suegery out if action for min 4months did it in footy Grand final to put salt in the wound we lost by 2 points. Point is it wasn't kitesurfing that did it. Say the least I'm only a beginner lol
Select to expand quoteDl33ta said..
Bit confused about the couple of posts that say it would be better to launch in front of the trees. I have no idea about Altona but isn't going through a tree potentially just as bad? I'm sure we've all seen this one:
I can see why you would think that. But I have seen several people saved at Altona by their kite being caught by the trees. Very tall Norfolk pines. I have also seen a couple of serious incidents up where kiters should not be. No trees and they just go straight into or over the stone wall, through the parked cars, across the road and into power lines or houses.
Other states in oz have license requirements for kiting, with the amount of learners that in my 6 yrs of kiting I have had to give very basic information too when I see them trying to learn on their own I think it is a must for licensing in VIC. This won't be the last incident I am afraid to say.
My thoughts go out to the guy and his family, I really hope he pulls through.
Select to expand quotecogden said..
Other states in oz have license requirements for kiting, with the amount of learners that in my 6 yrs of kiting I have had to give very basic information too when I see them trying to learn on their own I think it is a must for licensing in VIC. This won't be the last incident I am afraid to say.
My thoughts go out to the guy and his family, I really hope he pulls through.
Which states?
Select to expand quoteHappyG said..
Saffer, I know where you are coming from but the shops are like car dealers they don't check experience. Its like giving someone a V8 off the car lot can they handle it?
I will put it this way I was coming home last night from my job at 12pm. There was a commodore just next to my house up on the nature strip stuck. He obviously had lost his car doing a burnout and went up the guide wire that supports the electricity pole. He was a giant tool and at the time I was going to call the police but it seems he had done more damage to his car so I didn't bother. Young bloke V8 nearly kills himself luck I was coming home late he could have taken me out.
Its a different story in Paragliding I think as you need a flight license to purchase a new paraglider. But there is always EBAY no questions there.
It's not about forcing people to take lessons, it's about how you get them to do it. As an example, tell someone kiteboarding is difficult and they need lessons is likely to get the ego flowing and the whole "I've done windsurfing/wakeboarding/snowboarding, I'll pick it up quickly" response. Telling them that if they should get lessons so they get to ruin the instructors $2000 kite and keep theirs pristine instead is likely to solicit a different response. But if you want to enforce the shops to put a little more effort in it, make sure we as the kiteboarding community don't support those shops that do sell them without lessons. If enough of us pull the support, the shops may start taking more of an interest.
BTW, on the issue of the commodore and the cops, did you ever think that by not calling the cops about him being a dickhead, that the next time he is out he may actually kill someone innocent?
So here is my question...
Is this just going to turn into another "We had an accident" and "This shouldn't happen and we need to change things" kind of post or is something actually going to come out of this that changes things?
Over a year ago we had the Nic post where a kiter was seriously injured and there was plenty of talk then so is something ever going to happen or will this fall into the chasm of useless blame and misdirection which generally befalls almost every incident or warning post that happens?
Or is everyone going to sit around until the next one happens while trying to work out who is to blame and who should change things, and then the next one, until eventually kiting gets banned or the government implements a licensing system that requires everyone to pay $1000 per year, submit hair samples and a promise of their first born, after which they have to get a skippers license and fly a kite which can be a maximum of 5m in winds of maximum 15 knots to keep everyone safe?
Saffer you don't seem to be very constructive.
Have a look at Steve's post from kss going beyond to try and make things better and safer for kiters, please take a moment and maybe cool down before you post something post haist.
It was an unfortunate event... Like any sport it has its risks....
Select to expand quotedusta said..
no it doesn't , it's cover all the time
I'm no lawyer but it seems pretty clear on their site:Select to expand quote
Personal Accident Insurance SCOPE OF COVER Coverage applies whilst members are involved in sanctioned AKSA / KAL and State Association activities. These activities include all official events, training, competition, official social functions, committee meetings, fundraising activities and travel to and from these activities and kitesurfing recreationally as individuals. This policy provides cover for members aged between 2 and 75 years of age.
Here is an idea, the information on kiting locations on KBV could provide a bit more detail as it is pretty basic and also this could be compiled and provided for free to all beginner kiters as part of the completion of their lessons call it a handbook for kiting in Victoria, you could also list local shops near each spot etc and encourage new kiters to communicate with the local experts before heading out in an unknown area. You could also put in things like what are the common hand signals and etiquette when kiting as I am sure a lot of people never read up on this. If the kite shops get behind something like this it may be a good way to get a bit of advertising etc. I think the key is education and providing enough info to new kiters that they will hopefully make good decisions when out kiting.
^^^ Saffer, as frustrating as it is (and as a veteran campaigner of Altona protocol threads I find it very frustrating) I suspect some incremental increase in mindfulness develops through such threads. I hope that once the egos, blame and speculation are put aside people will:
1. Reflect on their own comprehension of every step of preventative safety measures and emergency procedures,
2. Be happy, for their own and the community's good, to ask questions of more experienced riders about any area in which they are slightly unsure,
3. Practice what they learn,
4. That experienced kiters will be more assertive and intervene as soon as they see any warning signs of a person doing something risky or beyond their competence (please, ask questions about this too). There are generally many steps leading to dangerous scenarios - from pumping up too big a kite to not knowing where to stand to launch - I regard any of these as grounds to ask a friendly question about skill and understanding of the forces and risks involved. This early-intervention is the area where I see the biggest potential for improvement.
For those who don't want to risk red thumbs or ridicule by asking innocent questions on the forums, I for one am happy for you to PM me about safety protocols in general or at Altona in particular. However, putting questions on the forums opens it to a wider audience and if questions are sincere, I for one will also use my keyboard warrior powers to keep the haters at bay.
My best wishes to the guy and his family.
Select to expand quoteaxion said...
Here is an idea, the information on kiting locations on KBV could provide a bit more detail as it is pretty basic and also this could be compiled and provided for free to all beginner kiters as part of the completion of their lessons call it a handbook for kiting in Victoria, you could also list local shops near each spot etc and encourage new kiters to communicate with the local experts before heading out in an unknown area. You could also put in things like what are the common hand signals and etiquette when kiting as I am sure a lot of people never read up on this. If the kite shops get behind something like this it may be a good way to get a bit of advertising etc. I think the key is education and providing enough info to new kiters that they will hopefully make good decisions when out kiting.
Totally for a hand book like this. I'm doing up maps for altona over the next few days.George from kite mag could organize it!
To the injured kitesurfer,
Sending some positive vibes for your quick and successful mend.
Select to expand quoterandom101 said..
Saffer you don't seem to be very constructive.
Have a look at Steve's post from kss going beyond to try and make things better and safer for kiters, please take a moment and maybe cool down before you post something post haist.
It was an unfortunate event... Like any sport it has its risks....
I am actually trying to be constructive. Steve's is one of the only people who has actually proposed doing something about it, but ultimately, Steve on his own won't change the world and the kiters can't sit around waiting for him to change things because its unfair and one person has limited power. Someone proposed licensing but they were blown out and ultimately this is what happens every time these post come up. Steve will may get a sign post change but kiters will go about their normal lives and in a years time someone else will be seriously injured when they ignore the sign.
I'm away on business in the states until the 27th but has anyone actually bothered to get in touch with the KBV, get a couple of the senior and more experienced regulars together with KSS to call a meeting with the KBV? How about that as a good starting point because if the council does see this (and they do read the forum) it would be good if the community has actually started to take action instead of everyone sitting around saying "Shame, poor guy" and hoping it never happens again.
Then, after you've called a meeting, you sit down and try work on some changes of varying degrees to try stop it happening again. Once that has happened, you pass on some feedback to the community about the proposed changes and then you go to the council (before the council comes to you with a prospective enema that would make a back room airport search look mild) and you actually show that you are doing something to make kiting safer and ensure that the community are safe.
Select to expand quoteKSSALTONA said..axion said...
Here is an idea, the information on kiting locations on KBV could provide a bit more detail as it is pretty basic and also this could be compiled and provided for free to all beginner kiters as part of the completion of their lessons call it a handbook for kiting in Victoria, you could also list local shops near each spot etc and encourage new kiters to communicate with the local experts before heading out in an unknown area. You could also put in things like what are the common hand signals and etiquette when kiting as I am sure a lot of people never read up on this. If the kite shops get behind something like this it may be a good way to get a bit of advertising etc. I think the key is education and providing enough info to new kiters that they will hopefully make good decisions when out kiting.
Totally for a hand book like this. I'm doing up maps for altona over the next few days.George from kite mag could organize it!
Good on you Steve, maybe we could also have some safe kiting zone flags up on the beach when it is busy in summer? We have flags on surf beaches to keep swimmers safe so why not the same for kiters? Also it may provide a warning to normal beach goers to stay out of areas designated for kiting.
Select to expand quoteSaffer said...random101 said..
Saffer you don't seem to be very constructive.
Have a look at Steve's post from kss going beyond to try and make things better and safer for kiters, please take a moment and maybe cool down before you post something post haist.
It was an unfortunate event... Like any sport it has its risks....
I am actually trying to be constructive. Steve's is one of the only people who has actually proposed doing something about it, but ultimately, Steve on his own won't change the world and the kiters can't sit around waiting for him to change things because its unfair and one person has limited power. Someone proposed licensing but they were blown out and ultimately this is what happens every time these post come up. Steve will may get a sign post change but kiters will go about their normal lives and in a years time someone else will be seriously injured when they ignore the sign.
I'm away on business in the states until the 27th but has anyone actually bothered to get in touch with the KBV, get a couple of the senior and more experienced regulars together with KSS to call a meeting with the KBV? How about that as a good starting point because if the council does see this (and they do read the forum) it would be good if the community has actually started to take action instead of everyone sitting around saying "Shame, poor guy" and hoping it never happens again.
Then, after you've called a meeting, you sit down and try work on some changes of varying degrees to try stop it happening again. Once that has happened, you pass on some feedback to the community about the proposed changes and then you go to the council (for the council comes to you with a prospect enema that would make a back room airport search look mild) and you actually show that you are doing something to make kiting safer and ensure that the community are safe.
Hey athol, im in contact with the council every few days at the moment and working on ways we can make sure it works for everyone. Hobsons bay council have been great but we need to zone the areas for beginner to expert and let the whole kiteing community know. Im working on it all the time and some locals like rich today are telling guys who are doing the wrong thing to move on.
Signage is there at the moment and is quite big, I guess kiters also need to check when they turn up to a new spot.
Anyway im doing my best and have brochures in the shop from parks vic showing zoned areas for altona.
