"Great to see lots of good guys on the water so please let me know who u are and will organise a surprise for you.
As for fkn 5th line kites - ffs..... each time that kite starts to drop in power in the wind (im 100kegs on a 10mtr 08 rebel) it just rolls over faster than a $2 hooker and each time i have had to do self rescue was simply cause of this! atleast 4 lines you can still fly (albeit badly) if they roll over to get back to the beach to unroll...." DaveReid...
5th line kites with tension give you a more direct feel. Different models do tend to roll and create a lot of self rescues for inexperienced kiters. Pure C kites dot do it due to the leading edge sucking to the water, and it was designed for safety and relaunch. As for anything hybrid, the technicalities of a successful relaunch in my experience are not better than a decent 4 line hybrid,bow/delta.
A 5th line should be on a C kite only, whether tensioned or not. I feel that the slight performance in terms of direct feel get people in trouble more often and can wreck your session. Good guys who drop their kites miss by a little bit and dont completely over rotate or hindenburg their kit.
I would not recomment any fifth line kite to a beginner now kite design has improved. Any thoughts or be lazy press the red button if you are a blind ford or holden rider.
Any intelligent thoughts or experiences?
:) all i can say (in reply to my own thread) is, i get the idea behind 5th lines and i think thats good for it to be an idea, but considering the "technology" can mean that it actually damages your kite to require repair for a fairly trivial thing, i dont see much of a need for it anymore. the only 2 times i have had to rescue myself was due to kite rolling over, just got lucky tonight due to some nice riders who sped up my journey home.
Yeh I think you have a point dave. Wasn't an issue for me on the rebel has had years under my belt but I did watch my brother go through similar problems you mentioned. Although a year later this were resolved and his kite flying improved out of sight and very quickly on the rebel. Fifth lines I agree are not for beginners on a hybrid kite.
The fifth line does give a direct feel for sure. Although this is also due on the rebel to having no pulleys. Now I'm on ozone kites, same deal.
Then again the time I had on Airush kites such as the VX and lithuim did have a direct feel, it was just at the steering that the spongy steering feel that you cant escape with pulleys, still there albeit reduced from what I had experienced before. Very nice kites indeed.
I wouldn't recommend a rebel to a beginner and indeed a fifth line in the surf...well again I had no issues but it was always in the back of my mind!
Never had any issues with my 5th NEW OS kite, got it 2009, a year and half or so after starting.
Nate has/had a whole not of techniques on YouTube showing how to relaunch, etc - have a serch or visit his website if it still exists. Www.Newkiteboarding.com
The OS has a similar idea to the old SS wave grenade were you can release the 5th if you land in trouble.
Cheers
Rich
PS - I love my OS
I was always curious about the difference between 4-line 5-line direct feel etc, I have tested a few of the 2012-2013 kites and all I can say is that to me the fifth line mainly gave me a feeling of being connected to the center of the kite, perhaps that's why so many think they are more direct feeling, but some of the 4 lines we just as direct with the exception of a bit of a delay with some of the kites with pulleys but under load I think today most kites have achieved that direct feel when the kite is moderately powered up. 4-line 4ever 
Hi Dave
Interesting topic and nice follow on from daveried threat
I do tend to agree with you on the fact that fifth line kites are orientated to more advanced flat water rides and most are marketed that way.
Unfortunately thought I don't think there has been a completely fool proof safety system designed. Many of the four line bridled system have a tendacy for the front bridle to wrap around the wing tip and then kite takes off in spiral death mode, this can be particularly bad with kites with a mini fifth system ( short line that runs a couple meters and connects to both front lines). Any bridled kite that has a rear line primary safety is just plain dangerous but you don't see to many of those anymore.
The safest are the single front line systems on a hybrid kite, but can still do the spiral thing if the bridle wrap is on the same side as the safety.
I personally use a kite with a fifth line system because I feel that it is the safest system for me. I know that no matter what when I release to the fifth line the power of the kite will die instantly.
PS wave kite is the new industry term for newbie kite
I ride LF HIFI's. They are a fifth line SLE kite. On a very rare occasion the kite does flip inside itself, it doesn't take too much to work the kite around and back through the lines. It just takes a bit of practice and technique 
I ride in shallow to deep choppy conditions.
I'm thankful I have the fifth- line; when I need to ditch the power, I can without the kite looping through the power zone.
Until I can find a 4 line kite that is as responsive and direct as my 5 line Hifi's, I'm sticking with them 
am I correct in saying that the fuels are the only non-bridle 4 line kite around? What do they fly like compared to a 5 line c / bridle c kite? must be sometin good about it they been making em for over 10 years?
^^ fuels 2007.2008 used to be untensioned 5ths. You had a cleat there so you could tension them at the upper limit of the wind range to depower them a little. the 5th made relaunch a sinch. Not being a tensioned 5th and a C kite I never had the kite roll through the lines.
Lovely kite but so gutless.
It has it's complications but I think 5th (not so called badly named mini 5th ) is easily the most trustworthy/safe release system, and i doubt that will ever change.
It's like having an angel with a super long arm holding the single most efficient point on the whole kite to depower it, with minimum risk of mechanical complications preventing the depowering.
Pumping you kite hard goes some way to reducing chance of tip wrap death loops with hybrid/bows.
If it's physically possible for something to happen it will. Most bizarre one yet leash hook jumped into depower hole and jammed whole kite on full power when kite slacked, then powered up... gotta make leash point on front of my harness, it is utterly stupid that they are on the back of most harnesses - no way you can get to release kite if dragged hard in high winds pulled backwards...
Iandvnt.
You have many valid points, but I think it will change. Btw I ride Best TS now, what gear are you on?
I think its all about kite design and what works.I rode fuels in 2007-2009 because of exactly what youre talking about, "the angel with the super long arm". the first bows and hybrids were terrible by todays standards in terms of safety and tangle issues.Bows deathlooped, and 5th line tensioned hybrids rolled like a wheel. I havent seen either at the beaches Ive kitesurfed for over 2 years.
4 line kites are safe as now. and so are 5ths, I still wouldnt recommend a fith line tensioned kite to a beginner, They wont feel the difference and there are so many good ones out there which have safety features that dont jam, rust, fray or just dont work. Experimentation has been done in kite design until theres a new fabric or something, a good wing is a good wing, innovation in the past 7 years has improved the safety of the sport heaps.
Tip wraps are getting less frequent with better design but still happen on recent kites.
Recently - someone launching - 30ft onto head due to tip wrap on recent kite (unconscious for 10 mins) - check before u let go!, plus i can think of 3 more recent examples of tip wraps to deathloops on recent kites I have witnessed - one i reckon was maybe due to soft kite - i rugby tackled it after it took rider 100m towards rock wall and ended up low (nice big beach!) and it deformed easily to allow bridle to wrap around. Kites were Naish and Cab. I ride Vegas, Torch and Combat right now bit of a mix (2012/2013).
Companies have been pretty lame to address them so slowly (tip wrap death loops on bows/hybrids) most have done nothing about it at all.
Something else - some adjustable bars where you can switch the width and leave 3cm of bar sticking out past attachment point - lame - perfect to jam your leash (suicide) around and get kite stuck in deathloop when unhooking.
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c kite 5th line wrap deathloop - "This is far from correct and I doubt it is even physically possible."
Yep very very unlikely in my experience never seen this, but i have had this happen with fuel on 5th - wrapped kite AND bar got jammed in swivel at same time when i was letting go of whole lot - it was a very weak pivitol deathloop as 5th is shortened due to both jam and kite wrap taking sting out of loop.
anyone remember the helicopter death loop - kites half inside out rotating at 100mph - been a while since i seen one of them!
Yeah I had the same experience with my 13 Rebel. When I started jumping I crashed it quite a bit and the fifth line would wrap around it, end session and a huge tangle to boot.
However now I'm much more skilled and my kiteflying skills are much better and I don;t have the issue anymore. I love the direct feel and ridiculous amount of depower it gives me.
However I am still considering trading it in at the end of the season and trying a different one again... Maybe an RPM?
