I tried foiling with the full carbon foil I bought and gave up after 4 one hour attempts - so difficult and frustrating!!!
Run into a foiling fellow who said he learned the basics in Sanur Bali by being towed by a boat.
I just made a purpose trip to Bali to do just that. This is my result after 2 hrs of instructions:
I hate to break it to you, but taking trips to Bali, then hiring a boat for $70 an hour to ski on a foil may not be the easiest way to learn to foil - at least from a convenience point of view. I think you're dollars would be better spent going to see Drew at WA Surf and either getting a lesson on, or hiring their Slingshot Hover Glide with the short mast system. These really are a simple set up to learn on. I bought one of these foils and I was up and riding short distances within 30min as were my mates who had a quick go. With the 15 inch and 24 inch masts, you can water start without needing to angle the foil heavily and the crashes are very mild. The mid aspect wing flies you at low speeds and is as stable as a job in the public service.
If you want to have a go on mine, I'm more than happy for you to try it out. I'll be down the river on Friday arvo if it hits 12kts or more so PM if you're keen.
I also believe you would be better off putting some time on water with your foil and maybe get a Foiler to give a bit of guidance.
learning to foil behind a boat only teaches you to foil behind a boat. As does foiling on a short mast only teach you to foil on a short mast.
go back to basics and keep board on water then gradually move feet back till you have controlled takeoff.
Select to expand quoteSwavek said..
Being towed by a boat will be different than using kite but I am sure a great start before one moves onto kite.
What your doing will shorten the journey. At the moment, you will improve your muscle memory and balance on the foil.
And that will help once you start doing it with a kite.
Take up the offer from DukeSilver .... going from a short mast to a progressively longer mast just gives you more time above the water while you sort out the nuances of foiling.
Gents, thanks for the advice. I tried to go on my copy of spotz2 few times and could not get going AT ALL. I was not able to get on the board and stay on it for 5m (I am talking 5m flat after water start, not 5m foiling).
Maybe the foil I have is too advanced for learning, but I was ready to throw it in the bin after four trips to the beach.
Bali trip is fun and foiling was another excuse to go - I am not saying go to Bali and pay $70/hr to learn.
What I am saying is that trying the foil behind the boat gave me some understanding of what it feels like to be foiling, weight distribution between the front and back leg, how sensitive the board is to any steering attempts, and most importantly some hope that I can do it and enthusiasm to keep trying.
I am hoping being towed by the boat will help me to get going using the kite but maybe I should have held my 'advice' until I verified that it did - and I don't know that yet. According to person who inspired my trip and some of you yes, according to some of you no.
Will definitely take the offer to assist from DukeSilver - thanks mate, will pm you but not back from Bali till Friday night so will try to organise another day.
Another option is to swap the foil with someone who has a beginner foil and is ready to try a more advanced carbon foil. I don't mean forever, just for a while for someone to try my foil and for me to try their beginner foil - please message me if you want to explore this option.
My foil and board look a lot like this:
www.thekiteboarder.com/2015/12/2016-buyers-guide/
My progression went like this:
LF Fishfoil full length mast with the odd session on botany bay (success rate low) in first six months
LF Fishfoil half length mast with frequent sessions at new local spot (success rate high) for two weeks
LF Fishfoil full length mast with frequent sessions at new local spot (success rate high) for six months
SS Hoverglide full length mast with frequent sessions at local spot (success rate high) for six months (on mast turns and gybes)
Zeeko Blue/White/Carver full length mast with frequent sessions at local spot plus surf sessions (success rate high) (now working on swapping feet and tacking on the mast)
I probably foil more now than anything else due to being able to get out so early. Pretty sure 50% of my opportunities were 15 knots or less.
I covered somewhere around 4000km this year, and I am pretty sure 50% was foil time, 40% surfboard and 10% TT door.
Love the foil.
Select to expand quotebigtone667 said..
My progression went like this:
LF Fishfoil full length mast with the odd session on botany bay (success rate low) in first six months
LF Fishfoil half length mast with frequent sessions at new local spot (success rate high) for two weeks
LF Fishfoil full length mast with frequent sessions at new local spot (success rate high) for six months
SS Hoverglide full length mast with frequent sessions at local spot (success rate high) for six months (on mast turns and gybes)
Zeeko Blue/White/Carver full length mast with frequent sessions at local spot plus surf sessions (success rate high) (now working on swapping feet and tacking on the mast)
I probably foil more now than anything else due to being able to get out so early. Pretty sure 50% of my opportunities were 15 knots or less.
I covered somewhere around 4000km this year, and I am pretty sure 50% was foil time, 40% surfboard and 10% TT door.
Love the foil.
Looks like beginner foil, shorter mast, and patience are the key - thanks for sharing.
Select to expand quotebigtone667 said..
My progression went like this:
LF Fishfoil full length mast with the odd session on botany bay (success rate low) in first six months
LF Fishfoil half length mast with frequent sessions at new local spot (success rate high) for two weeks
LF Fishfoil full length mast with frequent sessions at new local spot (success rate high) for six months
SS Hoverglide full length mast with frequent sessions at local spot (success rate high) for six months (on mast turns and gybes)
Zeeko Blue/White/Carver full length mast with frequent sessions at local spot plus surf sessions (success rate high) (now working on swapping feet and tacking on the mast)
I probably foil more now than anything else due to being able to get out so early. Pretty sure 50% of my opportunities were 15 knots or less.
I covered somewhere around 4000km this year, and I am pretty sure 50% was foil time, 40% surfboard and 10% TT door.
Love the foil.
I agree Bigtone. Lots of people seem to knock the idea of learning on a short mast. I found it a really great way to get the feel and muscle memory without the pain and frustration. Then, moving up to the 24" and now 35" was a fairly seamless transition.
My next foil will be a Zeeko green and white, but I will probably keep the Hover Glide for teaching friends when they're ready to give foiling a go.
Like you, I'm now foiling 95% of the time and can do on water transitions and the very occasional on foil transitions. I started in Feb this year. Don't believe the naysayers, short masts are a legitimate learning system that make learning enjoyable rather than terrifying.
Just my two cents but the other difference in Swavek's post is "... frequent sessions ...". That is by far the greatest factor in successfully learning to foil.
Everybody (myself included when I was learning) goes to the beach and thinks "the conditions are good so I'll just have a session on the TT/surfboard and save the foil for that perfect light wind day". That might be made worse by the thought that there is chop and that will be really hard on a foil.
There's two problems with that. One is you don't put the time in to acquire the essential foiling muscle memory. Two is you are trying to foil in light wind which is really hard for a beginner. One crashed kite and your session is over.
The only way to learn to foil is to do it lots and acquire the skills and muscle memory that enable you to do it. That takes time.
I don't think learning on a short mast is necessary. It seems that everybody takes about 6 hours to crack foiling no matter what they learn on. If it makes you feel more comfortable then go for it.
You would probably get more benefit from being mentored by an experienced foiler who can tell you what beginner mistakes to avoid. Everybody who regularly foils is frothing on it and we'd love the chance to tell you how great it is and point out all the newbie mistakes we made.
BTW I just checked my records and since I cracked foiling my sessions are 73% foiling and 27% surfboard. My record wind strength is 38 knots with a 7m surf kite. The surfboard only gets a run if there's solid waves to surf, or the wind is right for a beach that has lots of reefs.
Advice above is good.
As for your boat foiling practice transferring... yes it will. That's how I learned and others have too. When you try under a kite you will find it nice to control the power yourself directly.
There are s few possible advantages to learning behind a boat. You are forced to learn "downwind" immediately, which can be a challenge for some. You can go with very low power to get a feel for foil in the water. Without enough power to get on foil you can work on getting up for brief moments....learning the weighting and unweighting to get foil to rise. Finally when you start to make little turns back and forth across wake you are forced to learn to turn early, as well as toeside riding. For me the first consistent foiling was the heelside to toeside turn....the acceleration rises up then drop.
But once riding confidently you should get under a kite!
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..
Just my two cents but the other difference in Swavek's post is "... frequent sessions ...". That is by far the greatest factor in successfully learning to foil.
Everybody (myself included when I was learning) goes to the beach and thinks "the conditions are good so I'll just have a session on the TT/surfboard and save the foil for that perfect light wind day". That might be made worse by the thought that there is chop and that will be really hard on a foil.
There's two problems with that. One is you don't put the time in to acquire the essential foiling muscle memory. Two is you are trying to foil in light wind which is really hard for a beginner. One crashed kite and your session is over.
The only way to learn to foil is to do it lots and acquire the skills and muscle memory that enable you to do it. That takes time.
I don't think learning on a short mast is necessary. It seems that everybody takes about 6 hours to crack foiling no matter what they learn on. If it makes you feel more comfortable then go for it.
You would probably get more benefit from being mentored by an experienced foiler who can tell you what beginner mistakes to avoid. Everybody who regularly foils is frothing on it and we'd love the chance to tell you how great it is and point out all the newbie mistakes we made.
BTW I just checked my records and since I cracked foiling my sessions are 73% foiling and 27% surfboard. My record wind strength is 38 knots with a 7m surf kite. The surfboard only gets a run if there's solid waves to surf, or the wind is right for a beach that has lots of reefs.
Yep, regular practice is the key. I don't take any other boards with me no matter how strong the wind is - period. Until I crack it properly and can do flying transitions with 80% success, I'm going to be like a dog with a bone. I know I can ride a TT and a surfboard already, but foiling is an addictive challenge for me now. I NEED to master it 
.
As Gorgo said, light winds are tough for learning. Much better to have easy power than to have to sine your kite constantly. Last Sunday in Perth saw winds squalling through at 18 - 35 kts. I was out with my 6m Catalyst and having a ball. I never once thought, I should be on my TT now.
Also, be aware that learning to foil can be really tiring. I can kite for several hours comfortably on a TT or SB but early foiling sessions were hard and an hour of constant crashes and water starts saw me getting fatigued and making lots of errors. Quit the session when this starts to occur. Better to finish a session on a high and look forward to your next session than to regress into tired gumby mode and leave the water a bit deflated.
Lastly, visualise what you need to do in between foiling sessions before you head out again. Think about the things you want to focus on from foiling videos you've watched or things you felt you did well in your previous session. Practice foiling in your head as well as on the water - it helps.
Select to expand quoteSwavek said..
I am happy with the progress - soooo much easier to concentrate on the board only riding flat water!!!
This ^^^^
Made so much more progress on the first day I managed to get out in flat water. Didn't need to find a boat - just flat water. Normal sized kite and flat water - 12-15 knots. You won't need to concentrate on the kite as you should be able to park it.
Select to expand quoteSwavek said..
I tried to go on my copy of spotz2 few times and could not get going AT ALL.
what is a copy of a spotz 2 ?
Like is it actually a rideable foil ?
At best Spotz 2 are known to be fragile , sensitive and not beginner friendly. If it's a sketchy repo you might be wasting time riding something that is unridable by 2017 standards
Select to expand quotejamesperth said..Swavek said..
I tried to go on my copy of spotz2 few times and could not get going AT ALL.
what is a copy of a spotz 2 ?
Like is it actually a rideable foil ?
At best Spotz 2 are known to be fragile , sensitive and not beginner friendly. If it's a sketchy repo you might be wasting time riding something that is unridable by 2017 standards
It is a home made job of a guy who knows what he is doing. I know, sounds dodgy, but I had a foiling bloke to look at it and he approved.
Homemade is fine if it's a good design. I remember riding a Spotz 2 or 3 after foiling for a year or so and finding it very challenging compared to the KFA Mako I owned at the time. Not a criticism of the foil - plenty of guys go much faster than me on them - just very different to what I'd become accustomed to.
I'm riding aluminium zeekos now and they are hands down so easy and stable by comparison.
I can't see myself going back to race foils as a casual freerider.
Stick with it - I spent 10 hours in the water before I could foil 100 M out and back in again. It's hard.
Select to expand quotejamesperth said..
Homemade is fine if it's a good design. I remember riding a Spotz 2 or 3 after foiling for a year or so and finding it very challenging compared to the KFA Mako I owned at the time. Not a criticism of the foil - plenty of guys go much faster than me on them - just very different to what I'd become accustomed to.
I'm riding aluminium zeekos now and they are hands down so easy and stable by comparison.
I can't see myself going back to race foils as a casual freerider.
Stick with it - I spent 10 hours in the water before I could foil 100 M out and back in again. It's hard.
Wanted to skip the beginner gear, I think it was a mistake. Also carbon convenience - no need to pull apart and lubricare. It was meant to be freeride/race. The write up suggested that it was possible to use it as a learning foil:
www.thekiteboarder.com/2015/12/2016-buyers-guide/
I'm at session 13( 13 hrs) and flying pretty good. On a Moses Fluente.
My recommendation for myself, looking back :
1. Foil I bought is OK, but a Slingshot NF2 or Zeeko would have been a bit easier. If judging by how others struggle less than I did.
2. Most importantly, take lessons. I took 2x2 hours at session 3 &4. I learned so much I would not have learned as fast and gave me confidence to keep going. I can't believe how stubborn we all are, learning to fly a plane without instruction. It's like getting in a Cessna alone, and trying to fly it after looking at videos... Crash and burn.
I think the foil you buy initially depends on what you want out of foiling. If you are intent on racing or just going fast in general, and are already an intermediate to advanced kiter - particularly on directionals - it might make sense to buy a light weight full carbon race foil first up. An advanced kiter would back themselves in to learn on it and it would be cheaper than having to upgrade after several months. Those who are more interested in pursuing the freeride foiling style of say, Greg Drexler, just don't need or want a $3000 carbon wing set just to noodle around and ride waves etc. Simples
.
Some interesting reading here, I have ridden several different foils now and still enjoy the basic liquid force one. I have the Happy Foil currently and I've even used the same foil on my sup too, found I use the 600 mast the most (but I generally kite in water that's too shallow for the 1mtr mast) We've been teaching kiters to foil for a while and we've found a 350 mast makes it so much easier and safer for them.
In my opinion get a foil with a short mast and spend a couple of hours on lessons and most people pick it up fairly quickly. If you can ride a directional, only takes a few pointers and you can ride a foil on a short mast.
I think the biggest issue learning to foil is that we expect to learn quickly and be up and going in a matter of a session or 2.
Back the expectation off. Only take your foil to the beach. Foil as often as you can in every condition possible. Some conditions are not possible!
Expect to be an absolute pleb,numpty,newbie for a good 2 to 3 months. Be surprised and happy when/if you manage some foiling before then!
Select to expand quotePlummet said..
I think the biggest issue learning to foil is that we expect to learn quickly and be up and going in a matter of a session or 2.
Back the expectation off. Only take your foil to the beach. Foil as often as you can in every condition possible. Some conditions are not possible!
Expect to be an absolute pleb,numpty,newbie for a good 2 to 3 months. Be surprised and happy when/if you manage some foiling before then!
before I turn really grey I'd like to try foiling either on a kite or windsurf kit..reading thru it seems like it'll take a lot of tries to master..my question is what's the learning curve like for this? I understand it will be different from one to the other. I do have that intense spirit as long as it's on water but how long does it really take? am an intermediate kiter however can't do switch stances just cruising back and forth and a few jumps here and there..from 10-18kts .. I am actually a lone weekend warrior kiter here in our place so you could imagine no exchange of ideas..regards
Select to expand quotejp747 said..Plummet said..
I think the biggest issue learning to foil is that we expect to learn quickly and be up and going in a matter of a session or 2.
Back the expectation off. Only take your foil to the beach. Foil as often as you can in every condition possible. Some conditions are not possible!
Expect to be an absolute pleb,numpty,newbie for a good 2 to 3 months. Be surprised and happy when/if you manage some foiling before then!
before I turn really grey I'd like to try foiling either on a kite or windsurf kit..reading thru it seems like it'll take a lot of tries to master..my question is what's the learning curve like for this? I understand it will be different from one to the other. I do have that intense spirit as long as it's on water but how long does it really take? am an intermediate kiter however can't do switch stances just cruising back and forth and a few jumps here and there..from 10-18kts .. I am actually a lone weekend warrior kiter here in our place so you could imagine no exchange of ideas..regards
I think it depends on your commitment to it going in. I was up and going in a straight line pretty quickly. Within a couple of hours (2 sessions), I was managing controlled runs of 50m to 100m and once I hit that level, I progressed steadily. I've been kiting since 2008 and was competent on a strapless surfboard. Everyone is different though.
In my opinion, the biggest factors to picking it up fairly quickly were:
1. getting a foil that was suitable for learning (in my case an SS Hover Glide with the short masts) I think without the help of this beginners set up, I would have taken at least 10 hours to get to where I was after 2 hours.
2. doing lots of research through watching videos and reading forums like this one and Kiteforum prior to even buying a foil. Reading about others experiences in learning, sets your expectations so you are not crestfallen if it doesn't click for you immediately. It felt like I learnt to foil in my head before I even bought my first foil.
3. having the mindset that you're going to DO it rather than TRY it.
4. regular practice - commit to only foiling when the wind is blowing. Leave your other boards at home. As you start to get it, this won't be an issue as it's the only thing you'll want to do anyway.
Foiling is do-able for most competent kiters I think. Just leave your pride on the beach and enjoy the journey. You WILL fall many, many times.
I've just gotten to where I can fly back N forth for 30 min without crashing, doing 50 percent of my surface gybes. I'm on session 15. 57 years old, kiting 15 years, 6 on strapless surfboards. I fly a kite as automatically as I drive a car.
I have a Moses fluente on a homemade 13 liters stubby surfboard.
Given my limited experience, but still with this learners phase fresh in my mind, I'd say get a Slingshot NF 2 with 24 in and full mast. or Zeeko. Get a low volume board and foot hooks. High volume boards are a hassle to water start and clumsy. Footstraps are dangerous.
The Shinn set up with dedicated foilboard looks awesome, but there's no reviews out yet.
I totally agree that it requires a full mental commitment. You can't go into it with trepidation. It's the most difficult thing I've learned as an adult. And I learned to snowboard at 40, relearned skateboarding in bowls at 45....
I've just gotten to where I can fly back N forth for 30 min without crashing, doing 50 percent of my surface gybes. I'm on session 15. 57 years old, kiting 15 years, 6 on strapless surfboards. I fly a kite as automatically as I drive a car.
I have a Moses fluente on a homemade 13 liters stubby surfboard.
Given my limited experience, but still with this learners phase fresh in my mind, I'd say get a Slingshot NF 2 with 24 in and full mast. or Zeeko. Get a low volume board and foot hooks. High volume boards are a hassle to water start and clumsy. Footstraps are dangerous.
The Shinn set up with dedicated foilboard looks awesome, but there's no reviews out yet.
I totally agree that it requires a full mental commitment. You can't go into it with trepidation. It's the most difficult thing I've learned as an adult. And I learned to snowboard at 40, relearned skateboarding in bowls at 45....
I don't think one can ever be too old to learn. There is an old crusty dude here at my local, late 60's who took up foiling last year. He makes his own twin tips so he thought he would have a crack at his own foil. I really admire that. However, he most likely would have learned much more quickly with a proven wing design. It took him a full year of trial and error to even know if his foil would work. After I started and advanced beyond him he began to look at my wing and make adjustments. It is so good to see him stoked on kiting still after all these years. Now he has refined his design and is improving at a much better pace.
There are stages in the learning process that all of us had/have to go through. And many are measured in minutes if you take out the unproductive time.
for instance in a first timers hour long session they may only get 2 or 3 quality attempts at getting up on foil.
in regards to short Vs long masts the breakdown of getting over needing the short mast is about 30mins of practice time. Not hours and hours.
when first getting lifted by foil most keep lifting till wings break surface and crash. With short mast the time from lift to crash is short and crash is from less altitude.
longer mast the lift time is longer giving more time to learn to correct, more experience of the tilting actions of the foil, but bigger crashes.
but this stage when learning on a std length mast is barely 1/2 hour in real TOW time.
what I am seeing is that the conversation from short to long mast is near double that time.
one of the best phases is learning to control height and when you workout that running at half mast high has a nice stability to it which has its rewards in distance you can foil and lets you relax look ahead and enjoy.
My two bobs worth ....
I have learnt on a carbon jshapes board with full length mast . I am able to go up and down wind and am just starting to get my head around gybing. I can control height pretty well now - just want to be much better at gybing so I can settle into cruising about .
I opted for this combo based on knowing that I would progress in skill and felt it was gear I could grow into over time . This has been my experience in windsurfing 25 years and kiting 7 years . I am 55 yo .
I have not ridden anything else but am guessing the jshapes is a little more difficult to learn on than the main stream learner gear with short masts etc .
I agree with RAL INN - I didnt see the need for a shortmast - I would have only used it for a short time an felt I would be looking for the longer mast very quickly due to the choppy conditions here . And yes , I have had plenty of crashes from a height 
. Helmet and neoprene vest .
The jshapes has a fairly high volume board ... I have found the volume to assist me in light conditions .
There was some wasted sessions at the beginning in onshore conditions ... I got nowhere , too shallow and blown back on shore .
When I had crosshore I advanced pretty quickly - I was going upwind 300m + in about 2-3 hours when conditions were good .
I listened to advice about using a smaller kite than you normally use but found that I was best to choose the kite I normally use to give me something to hang onto . Smaller kites will happen later .
My point is , it is possible to learn fairly quickly - with the right conditions , kite and on a board that is not classed as learner gear .
It's just quality time on the water and it clicks into place .
Cheers
Select to expand quoteeddiemorgs said..
My two bobs worth ....
I have learnt on a carbon jshapes board with full length mast . I am able to go up and down wind and am just starting to get my head around gybing. I can control height pretty well now - just want to be much better at gybing so I can settle into cruising about .
I opted for this combo based on knowing that I would progress in skill and felt it was gear I could grow into over time . This has been my experience in windsurfing 25 years and kiting 7 years . I am 55 yo .
I have not ridden anything else but am guessing the jshapes is a little more difficult to learn on than the main stream learner gear with short masts etc .
I agree with RAL INN - I didnt see the need for a shortmast - I would have only used it for a short time an felt I would be looking for the longer mast very quickly due to the choppy conditions here . And yes , I have had plenty of crashes from a height . Helmet and neoprene vest .
The jshapes has a fairly high volume board ... I have found the volume to assist me in light conditions .
There was some wasted sessions at the beginning in onshore conditions ... I got nowhere , too shallow and blown back on shore .
When I had crosshore I advanced pretty quickly - I was going upwind 300m + in about 2-3 hours when conditions were good .
I listened to advice about using a smaller kite than you normally use but found that I was best to choose the kite I normally use to give me something to hang onto . Smaller kites will happen later .
My point is , it is possible to learn fairly quickly - with the right conditions , kite and on a board that is not classed as learner gear .
It's just quality time on the water and it clicks into place .
Cheers
Great stuff Eddie!!!!
Looks like I've got a bit of catching up to do.
3 months since I've been on my foil:(
Got my mast cut down to kite Lake George over winter but found out the weed in the lake for some reason just lays 300mm below the water line. Not a happy camper!!!!!
Still another 3 months for the sea breezes to kick in.
Select to expand quotehigh as a kite said..eddiemorgs said..
My two bobs worth ....
I have learnt on a carbon jshapes board with full length mast . I am able to go up and down wind and am just starting to get my head around gybing. I can control height pretty well now - just want to be much better at gybing so I can settle into cruising about .
I opted for this combo based on knowing that I would progress in skill and felt it was gear I could grow into over time . This has been my experience in windsurfing 25 years and kiting 7 years . I am 55 yo .
I have not ridden anything else but am guessing the jshapes is a little more difficult to learn on than the main stream learner gear with short masts etc .
I agree with RAL INN - I didnt see the need for a shortmast - I would have only used it for a short time an felt I would be looking for the longer mast very quickly due to the choppy conditions here . And yes , I have had plenty of crashes from a height . Helmet and neoprene vest .
The jshapes has a fairly high volume board ... I have found the volume to assist me in light conditions .
There was some wasted sessions at the beginning in onshore conditions ... I got nowhere , too shallow and blown back on shore .
When I had crosshore I advanced pretty quickly - I was going upwind 300m + in about 2-3 hours when conditions were good .
I listened to advice about using a smaller kite than you normally use but found that I was best to choose the kite I normally use to give me something to hang onto . Smaller kites will happen later .
My point is , it is possible to learn fairly quickly - with the right conditions , kite and on a board that is not classed as learner gear .
It's just quality time on the water and it clicks into place .
Cheers
Great stuff Eddie!!!!
Looks like I've got a bit of catching up to do.
3 months since I've been on my foil:(
Got my mast cut down to kite Lake George over winter but found out the weed in the lake for some reason just lays 300mm below the water line. Not a happy camper!!!!!
Still another 3 months for the sea breezes to kick in.
Haha. All good mate . That must be why Lake George is such good flatwater spot.
I amjust starting to enjoy foiling. It's like beginning again which is great. Still getting hammered occasionally.
See you in Bali??
