Hey Seabreezer,
I started with Kitefoiling (still cant do toe sideturns nor jibes; love to cruise; love to go out starting at 8kn up to max 15kn with my Flysurfer Soul 10m before switching to Twin tip) last year using:
Nobile NHP Split Foil
Alpinefoil Access 5.0 (60cm Mast; 70cm Fuselage; Front: XLP (682cm2; 67cm span; 6,6 aspect ratio); Back: RT Team 236cm2)
The combo was pretty versatile and i had a LOT of fun.
I decided to get a dedicated foil board to free up the NHP as a pure twin tip option purchasing an Armstrong WKT 122. Everything just got better & it was a great joice.
Followed up with a 85cm mast: even more fun. The setup is so playful and i got the feeling i can easily recover the setup even when the foil comes out of the water. The only wish i would have from my noob perspective would be to have a tiny bit of more glide.
I had the chance to purchase a new old stock CF1200 Foil Kit V1 incl CF300 backwing, TC70 & 100cm mast:
What can I say. I feel pretty stupid. The ride felt just terrible.
Mast way too long for my skill (had some pretty bad scary crashes propellering around). Foil is uncomfortably floating horizontally (which i know the strapless riders prefer). Taxing is impossible since the front wing got waaay to much lift which makes the water start ridiculous for my skill set since i have no chance to push the nose down (during riding i can)
What should i be doing now?
My first reaction would be to change
a) mast length swap to 80/85cm mast
b) change the front wing to something which is similar to my Alpinefoil front wing? (CF950V2; CF800; HS850 or ???)
c) Stay the fuc* with Alpinefoil :D
d) What do you think?
Qs:
- Are the new front wing proposals fitting my existing historical back wing?
- Do those partially newer gen A+ front wings even fit my historical Armstrong fuselage?
thanks so much for helping
Peter
Hi Peter,
Don't feel to bad we all make some mis-steps on the path to the perfect foil. There's just too many options out there.
Alpine foil were never popular here, but sold well in Europe. I think there were rumours of corrosion, that they didn't go well in salt water use., so that could be something to keep an eye out for. But it could have been just one early batch.
Personally I never liked long masts, I prefer 75-85cm as it's much more responsive. Unless you're racing and want to heel right over I don't see the point. In a big lumpy sea you'll have to keep the speed down on both a long mast or a short mast.
You could talk with the shop that sold you the new old stock and see whether they are open to swapping you to something else?
Dunno where you're located, is there a local scene, can you try other foils before buying again?
Peter
The unbalanced lift.. The big one, move your mast back in the tracks.. note position- my few boards didn't have a reference scale on the bottom to do this so I DIY'ed with tape. The next more subtle balance option is to use inserts under the back wing.. For that era they are titanium bed which the profile sits in 1 2 & 0.5 Degree options??
Fit.. yes the later front foils will fit the original fuselage. The main point of change was adding more screw holes to the new mast and wings. There's a mod kit for the change over..
The other point Armie's original mast base has a different angle of attachment- ok for kiting not g8 for winging- I use a 2degree insert to lift the front up.. to normalise for the standard board angle.
There are a range of mast lengths the change from 60 to 100 cms would challenge any one. KB's comments are on the money.
For reference my original grab bag purchase came from a sup foiler.. the biggest wing was 2400 which I tried afew times kiting for a larf.. 1200 CF is fine suggest don't chase the wish list until you get comfortable.. For mine changing the mast is key probably picking up 2nd hand as the armie users would have moved to the next generation one..
cheers
AP ??
I started with an Armstrong HS1250 and way to much lift. Moved to the ma1000 and way more manageable. Aquaplow is right on moving the mast back. Every mfg will have a different center of lift. Since you were on a small foil before you can even try a ma800. There are lots of these available as Armie has a new line of ma's out. The ma1000 has been super easy to ride but it has to be in the right spot given I am using a front foot strap. If to forward even 1 cm lift is hard to control. Typically I ride the mast position centered on the WKT122 or back a bit, so around 6 or 5. On my North Scoop 135 I am right back at the end of the slot. you will get it. I ride a 93 cm mast in deep water.
Select to expand quotepeterpeter007 said..
Hey Seabreezer,
I started with Kitefoiling (still cant do toe sideturns nor jibes; love to cruise; love to go out starting at 8kn up to max 15kn with my Flysurfer Soul 10m before switching to Twin tip) last year using:
Nobile NHP Split Foil
Alpinefoil Access 5.0 (60cm Mast; 70cm Fuselage; Front: XLP (682cm2; 67cm span; 6,6 aspect ratio); Back: RT Team 236cm2)
The combo was pretty versatile and i had a LOT of fun.
I decided to get a dedicated foil board to free up the NHP as a pure twin tip option purchasing an Armstrong WKT 122. Everything just got better & it was a great joice.
Followed up with a 85cm mast: even more fun. The setup is so playful and i got the feeling i can easily recover the setup even when the foil comes out of the water. The only wish i would have from my noob perspective would be to have a tiny bit of more glide.
I had the chance to purchase a new old stock CF1200 Foil Kit V1 incl CF300 backwing, TC70 & 100cm mast:
What can I say. I feel pretty stupid. The ride felt just terrible.
Mast way too long for my skill (had some pretty bad scary crashes propellering around). Foil is uncomfortably floating horizontally (which i know the strapless riders prefer). Taxing is impossible since the front wing got waaay to much lift which makes the water start ridiculous for my skill set since i have no chance to push the nose down (during riding i can)
What should i be doing now?
My first reaction would be to change
a) mast length swap to 80/85cm mast
b) change the front wing to something which is similar to my Alpinefoil front wing? (CF950V2; CF800; HS850 or ???)
c) Stay the fuc* with Alpinefoil :D
d) What do you think?
Qs:
- Are the new front wing proposals fitting my existing historical back wing?
- Do those partially newer gen A+ front wings even fit my historical Armstrong fuselage?
thanks so much for helping
Peter
Pete, I started on the exact same kit as you ( the 60cm and XLP Access 5.0 )
Tacks and gybes are difficult in any type of chop because you basically always 25 cms from either the board or foil ventilating. I purchased a 75cm mast and that made a huge difference in allowing tacks and gybes with more buffer to the water, without a major sacrifice in controllability due length.
Then I got the wave950 which has a similar top to the XLP2 which I had ~ 25kts, but much, much better low end, and now I think they re-did the wave750 which I would probably now prefer for a little more speed and fun, though the 950 is a great all rounder sub 20 kts. Same fuselage and rear wing, just front foil change.
1200 is quite huge for a front wing these days, I would avoid anything over 1000 unless you are pump foiling, or regularly have almost no wind.
Select to expand quoteFoilnut said..
I started with an Armstrong HS1250 and way to much lift. Moved to the ma1000 and way more manageable. Aquaplow is right on moving the mast back. Every mfg will have a different center of lift. Since you were on a small foil before you can even try a ma800. There are lots of these available as Armie has a new line of ma's out. The ma1000 has been super easy to ride but it has to be in the right spot given I am using a front foot strap. If to forward even 1 cm lift is hard to control. Typically I ride the mast position centered on the WKT122 or back a bit, so around 6 or 5. On my North Scoop 135 I am right back at the end of the slot. you will get it. I ride a 93 cm mast in deep water.
Thanks for all your recommendations!
Changed to 72 Mast & MA1000 - much better handling now!
Even though my mast is already at "6" (
&shop=188519) I still have so much lift that I can barely ride in taxing mode and go directly on the foil after water start.
Which actions do you recommend?:
a) Move Mast even more back
b) Changing the shim degree (i am at zero now)? (if yes to what degree?)
c) Changing the backwing to Flow 235? (If yes is there a mast position correction recommended?)
cheers
Peter
I settled on position 5(back of mast foot) with the ma1000 and 235 and blue shim. Use same position for 79.5 and 93 mast, I started with 72 mast but was so easy to breach so quickly moved to 79.5. Way better especially as you learn to jibe.. 60 cm fuse. Using slingshot foot hooks at front hole positions.
Are you using straps? I started with the Armie Y strap but had some sketchy crashes where foot was not coming out easy. Otherwise great strap. Found the hooks better for bailing although you have watch kite lines do not catch. next season I will try strapless. The down side for straps is you have to dial in mast position exactly so you can control the lift. Adjustments on mast position help a lot. My weight is 187 lbs/85kg
