Anyone had any experience on either side of a dispute over a tradie bill? We recently had a sparkie quote verbally for a job between $2,500 and $3,500. This seemed reasonable as we thought somewhere between 2 - 4 days work.
The bill came in unitemised at $7,293 from sparkie's dad. When queried we were given an itemised account which included about $1,500 in materials, the rest was labour at $100 per hour for BOTH him and his apprentice. No mention previously of any intention to charge for apprentice who did very little and was not requested to be there. Nor ever any indication that the work was going over budget.
We sent a letter with a cheque for $5,000 citing the highest verbal quote plus materials.
He has since advised in writing we will be summonsed if remainder not paid in two weeks and they will claim costs.
We've always been fair and prompt payers for tradies and some have become good mates. But this feels wrong. Does anyone have any experience with the outcomes if we get summonsed? I feel like we should stand up to the guy but don't have any idea of how much more we stand to lose.
Is there another avenue - mediation option perhaps?
Is there an equivalent to a Master Builders Association for sparkies?
Thanks for any advice.
what was the job
seems a bit more then a rerouteing a bit of wireing or some padio lights or a aircon
Rewire garage and adjoining spare room, lights, power points, tv antenna and run ethernet to the house. 3.5 days on site.
Phone the advice line here:
www.commerce.wa.gov.au/consumer-protection/contact-consumer-protection-0
Who knows, maybe they even know this tradie through reputation...
Select to expand quotepaddymac said..
Rewire garage and adjoining spare room, lights, power points, tv antenna and run ethernet to the house. 3.5 days on site.
okay i honestly think you have a case then.
good luck
I just had a entire 5x2 rewired for $5000 , initial quote was for $6500,
This is with a large well known Perth electrical firm.
4 days on site.
On the other hand we had a young painter (licenced) make a hash of things , submit a invoice for $2500 and follow it up with a notice to call debt collectors 4 days later..... we settled with him coming in for 2 days to clean up the bad work instead. I think the younger tradies have some helicopter parent types giving them wrong advice sometimes....
Sparkies and plumbers are always the highest rates on site
I've not seen the job but it certainly seems up there, I've just built a 300 m2 house with a fair amount of electrical/ tv/ hi fi/ some Ethernet
And it came out at $13000
Certainly full rate for an apprentice is not correct, you can look up rates on apprentice board site, if he's charged full wack on this then he wouldn't of missed you with loading materials
Ask for full detailed materials list( I supply my actual material slips) to clients
I don't have issues doing this as I'm not trying to stich clients up
The small claims court will need all this info anyway
I recently did a job and a plumber snorted a client for a large fee, he paid another plumber to quote job and sent money to that sum
With an explanation of what he'd done
IMHO from what's been done I'd say it's excessive
And why invoice from his father( acting under his licence)
One of two scenarios come to mind and they're completely opposite. They're either idiots and don't know what they're doing, or they have been playing this game before and know what they're doing. Either way, to fight their over-charging it's still the same process.
Start documenting everything conversation you've had with him (or his daddy), in a diary is best. If you can remember word for word what you both said then direct quote it in your notes. Was anyone else there for those conversations? If yes get them to adopt/sign your notes to corroborate what was said.
Gather your evidence, photos before and after, if you don't have photos then take some. If you know any sparks that are willing to come and quote on the same work or provide a written report on work done and their estimation on cost then get it done. If not try and measure and count the materials he might have used and cost them out. There's not much you can't price on the net these days.
Jump on this website?www.magistratescourt.wa.gov.au/C/civil_matters.aspx?uid=1226-6994-1097-9582 and start reading the fact sheets, Fact sheet 2 has a handy flow chart for you so you can read the ones that are relevant to you. I'd also read the ones relevant for him so you know what he (or his daddy) have to do.
No lawyers are involved so it will most likely come down to who is more organised on the day. Small Claims are heavily reliant on procedure, forget a form or don't lodge it at the right time and you start again. It's sounds like you've already been generous in your payment and their claim for another $2,000 is excessive. I'd fight it and call his bluff. If he's an idiot your preparation will scare him off, if he knows what he's doing them you'll need your evidence to fight him.
What was the basis of the arrangement. Did you have a written contract in place or was the arrangement off the back of a conversation / verbal fee estimate? He has a bad case if he's not in contract.
Select to expand quoteChris6791 said..
One of two scenarios come to mind and they're completely opposite. They're either idiots and don't know what they're doing, or they have been playing this game before and know what they're doing. Either way, to fight their over-charging it's still the same process.
I think it is the latter Chris, they seem well practiced and willing to pull the trigger very quickly.Select to expand quoteHooksey said..
What was the basis of the arrangement. Did you have a written contract in place or was the arrangement off the back of a conversation / verbal fee estimate? He has a bad case if he's not in contract.
Conversation with builder as a witness Hooksey, builder happy to sign a statement.
Thanks for the advice all, we will have our day in court and make sure we have a conversation with the Chamber of Commerce.
PaddyMac its the department of commerce not the chamber of commerce that you need to talk to, I was going to say that they are the polar opposites but that is not right, most dodgy charterers would never join the chamber of commerce, nor would they be welcome.
The department of commerce is the old consumer affairs mob.
Either way I think you are well within your rights to only pay the top end of what you were quoted, unless you were consulted about a overun earlier, my sparky (i'm a builder) tells me to use a roughy of $200 a fitting and that ALWAYS more than covers the actual invoice he sends.
Select to expand quotekk said..
PaddyMac its the department of commerce not the chamber of commerce that you need to talk to, I was going to say that they are the polar opposites but that is not right, most dodgy charterers would never join the chamber of commerce, nor would they be welcome.
The department of commerce is the old consumer affairs mob.
Either way I think you are well within your rights to only pay the top end of what you were quoted, unless you were consulted about a overun earlier, my sparky (i'm a builder) tells me to use a roughy of $200 a fitting and that ALWAYS more than covers the actual invoice he sends.
Hah, yeah, slip of the keyboard. Dept of Commerce. 
Thanks for the estimating tip, that's handy to know.
jeez fellas, you need a sparky like the one we use.
Tom forgets to send us the bills [continually] we keep asking for invoices [continually] he says he will get around to it [continually]
Our bosses last "guestimate", says he should have as an absolute minimum, somewhere between 12k to 20k of ours in his pocket!
We underlings did a betterer guestimate - thinking it is closer to 30k, but probably much more 
Our beancounters are tearing their hair out trying to work out budgets and stuff 
even better though - Tom slung us a tidy sum for our end of year barbie at work. 
paid for lotsa prawns, snaggers, beers, and stuff.
we reeeaaly like our sparky 
Start by writing him a letter stating that a verbal contract is legally enforceable. (It does not have to be in writing if there is offer, acceptance and an intention to create a legal relationship - which you both obviously did as he did the job and you intended to pay the quoted sum)
Further, what was agreed to at the start is the end of story (as he never sought to revise the bill or re-negotiate the contract).
He would be an idiot to go further.
I reckon these guys are trying it on, surely they'll back down before the court date given the info we have here.. I reckon they are relying on most people paying extra to avoid the stress and risk of losing. However with word of mouth and social media these days I'm sure this unethical behaviour will impact on their business quite quickly!
You already paid them $5k, if he can't make solid margin from that with one apprentice and standard fittings he's got bigger troubles than this. Personally I'd feel ripped off paying $5k!
I wouldn't contact them before, don't give them info and motivation to better prepare themselves. I would however spend time preparing with materials pricing, another electrical quote etc. (however I wouldn't expect the other quote matched, but if it's $3,500 it helps the cause..)
